Spotted by Physiocrat on gov.uk:
Will UK nationals continue to get their State Pension uprated under no deal?
The UK leaving the EU will not affect entitlement to continue receiving the UK State Pension if you live in the EU, and we are committed to uprate across the EU in 2019 to 2020. We would wish to continue uprating pensions beyond that but would take decisions in light of whether, as we would hope and expect, reciprocal arrangements with the EU are in place.
Physiocrat (himself an expat pensioner) adds:
My father emigrated to Australia to be with relatives and was swindled by the UK Government due to the non-uprating of pensions.
It seems as if the UK government is about to play the same dirty trick again. This is just using Brexit as an excuse. If the Spanish government decides not to uprate its citizens pensions living in the UK, why should the UK government punish UK citizens living in Spain by refusing to uprate theirs?
What is the connection? I understand that Norway has a reciprocal arrangement, but then the numbers involved as so small as to be insignificant.
Like so much that has been said about Brexit, it is a strange logic. The British pension is a contributions-based entitlement. What business is it of the government to restrict it if people choose not to live in the UK?
I smell foul play in the offing. A stink needs to be made.
Friday 8 March 2019
Nobody move, or the expat pensioners get hurt!
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13 comments:
The text is on the government web site. They are lining things up for another swindle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-nationals-in-the-eu-benefits-and-pensions-in-a-no-deal-scenario
If only it were an actual contribution based system where the government saved your NI contributions rather than spunk them on the current stupid set of policies.
I think that's where the sleight of hand comes in - there is no pension pot therefore someone is going to get shafted. If you are out of sight, you are out of mind.
if -'there is no pension pot therefore someone is going to get shafted.'
Yes it was/is the great merit of the private pension industry in this country, that they managed to live up to that ideal by having just such the 'pot'/reserves you are thinking about.That's why boomers are all so confident in the Pensions industry (despite the odd character who thinks, that even a Victorian hovel in Stoke, on the buy to let, is a far better bet). My wise old uncle, you might remember him, Bob Maxwell, was very keen on this sort of 'solid' pension pot himself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
Anyway, have a look at your NI statement, the unit of account is 'per year of full contribution' and folks I know, are very interested in this figure, which in the end, is not 'out of site' but looms rather large young man ;)
In other news Max and Stacy assure us yet again Dollars are dead, that real Gold, er Silver, er Crypto, will cure all our ills.
The numbers are small here for sure. But it does demonstrate the fact that it is not a scheme based on a immutable contract in the sense that there is no asset pot that you own and has to be paid to you regardless. Other repudiations are possible, e.g. increase in retirement age, which cannot be done if your pension is backed by private property and not a state promise.
Out of interest, what would the Citizen's Income position on this be? Presumably we wouldn't want to be paying every Tom, Dick and Mary who had a British passport regardless of location. Luckily, if someone did want to retire abroad, they would have a lot more wealth under LVT and CI and could build up a pot of private property to fund their retirement.
Matt, all very true, but why link this to Brexit? It's entirely up to the UK government to decide.
MW, Matt is correct.
Mombers, how should citizens income or pension work for people who go abroad? A decision has to be made, but I'm not sure what the fairest policy would be.
Thanks Physio,
My wife and I always had skin in this Brexit game.She comes from the same part of the world you now find yourself living in -ish:)
Will EU country x pay the State Pension we amassed? Will private Pension companies in country x also pay the two we have? They wouldn't even transfer mine out under EU law; as previously discussed here by Mr Lola. So Government Statement of no help to me, or my wife, who is very 'Remain' fearful!
mombers,
Blairite folks on the 'left' never explain how you can run a Keynesian, JG, healthservice and welfare state with NeoLib open borders anyaway. Mark will no doubt have something to say about LVT/CI. But my first throw would be that the State Pension is a CI. The trouble is that it pays too much, to - to few people, with a start date of 67 :) The idea is that your successful business, on top of the CI, gets you the pot which means you can live in Spain. CI is not 'funding' stuff for the future, its just a Macro tool to help solve the demand (and social problems) of today IMHO :)
I now live in New Zealand and collect their Pension. I was given the choice of still receiving the UK pension and was told that there would be no increases over time. My NZ pension does increase with inflation and I believe the UK money is paid to the NZ exchequer. This means that over time,the NZ government will lose out. However they seem happy for this to continue. I am also in receipt of two more pensions, one small one which had been put aside for over 20 years as it was too small to transfer into another scheme, and my main pension paid by my last employer and to which I had contributed for over twenty years. Both these pensions are paid monthly by bank transfer in Sterling and appear in my account in NZ Dollars.The transactions appear to be trouble free. As a bonus I have paid no income tax for the first 4 years of my residency . This is a gesture by NZ to help new immigrants settle in. I have been very grateful for this as setting up a new home in an unfamiliar place and currency has some degree of difficulty.
This of course I’d like to know too, otherwise it’s prison island.
In theory, I would say that if you are a citizen living outside the UK, and have a UK LVT bill to pay then the LVT due should be reduced by the amount of your CI, but if the CI is greater than your tax you wouldn't get the extra.
However, the government has no business knowing whether someone lives in or out of the UK, therefore it must be on an honor system and so CI would have to be paid to everyone who applies for it.
The number of British citizens overseas is not that high so it doesn't matter. The government doesn't know either, as citizenship is done on a case-by-case basis. When you apply for a passport your claim to citizenship is checked at that point, and when you renew your passport it is assumed that you are still a citizen.
There are millions of British citizens or people who could easily become citizens in the US (and also India), but they don't know it and the majority will never know it because it doesn't affect their daily life.
JD, exactly. Mutual deals are good, but ultimately it's up to the UK govt to decide how much to pay whom.
C, my view is, the basic qualification for getting the CI is being on the electoral register (this identifies UK passport holders* and encourages people to get on the register who otherwise drop off - young people and tenants). That should make it easier to track down who live here.
There's a bit of a dilemma here. Working age people who go abroad for a long time shouldn't really get a CI any more, it's a waste of money, but traditionally, OAPs can claim their UK state pension even when they move abroad. Hmmm, there's no right or wrong answer.
* yes I am perfectly aware that non-UK passport holders can vote in certain elections here, but they keep tabs on who has UK, Irish, other EU or Commonwealth passport etc.
"...I smell foul play in the offing..."
If almost any UK politico or member of the establishment is involved, said stench will be pervasive.
The issue of leaking CI/CP to non-residents would be a small one indeed, not worth getting too fussed about. The elimination of tax on labour and capital should make the UK one of the most attractive places in the world to live in. MW I like the idea of the electoral roll though.
RE Paying CI to ex-pats. Surely CI morphs into a CP at 'retirement age'. It becomes an entitlement for which you have contributed. In which case I would have thought that it is paid independent of where you are resident.
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