SJ emailed me a link to an article in The Economist. The author outlines some of the advantages of collecting taxes from land rental values rather than incomes, and muses on the respective advantages of the 50p top tax rate and a Mansion Tax but then can't resist playing The Poor Widow Bogey:
... to be convinced by a mansion tax, I confess I would like to see fairness taken into account, as well as efficiency. And for that matter, not just fairness but humanity, which is not the same thing... Britain is home to a fair number of people sitting on a million quid's worth of wealth simply because they were adults in, say, 1965, and bought a house for, say, £15,000. It is also quite possible to make the case that such paper riches amount to a massive transfer of wealth from younger generations to their parents... (1)
But leaving aside dry numbers, I confess to worrying about a mansion tax of that sort. First, it might as well be re-named a "London tax", or at the least a "south-east of England tax", because that is where the estimated 250,000 homes worth more than £1m are found. You may say that is fair enough, and that England is due an extra dose of redistribution from south to north, alongside a redistribution from old to young. (2)
But here is my other worry. You could also name such a tax a "force Home Counties widows to sell their homes and downsize tax". This is a blog posting, not a finished print article, so I do not have hard and fast numbers for this, but a fair number of the people living in "mansions" are certain to be pensioners on relatively low incomes. Charge them several thousand pounds a year to stay in their homes, and many would simply have to move out. (3)
The truly plutocratic, meanwhile, would set about finding clever lawyers and accountants to turn their mansions into business assets owned by companies owned by trusts in the Channel Islands, and so on, minimising their tax bills... (4) An interesting news story in the Financial Times this week floated the idea of a "son of mansion tax" that would scrap the current rules exempting first homes from capital gains tax when such houses were sold. (5) This rule would apply to homes over a certain value, such as £2m (of which there are about 50,000 nationwide). That sounds more practical to me. as it avoids the nightmare of establishing the market value of homes across the country. (6)
It also sounds humane. (7) Because yes, there are reasons to pity today's young people, who had the ill-luck to be born after their elders had enjoyed the fruits of the post-war boom. And yes, there are older people in Britain sitting on lots of wealth because they bought their houses years ago. But that windfall was not a conscious act of wickedness, or even of greed (8) (unlike, arguably, Baby Boomer schemes to award each other early retirement at 55 on vast pensions, which were a form of stealing from future generations). (9)
1) The whole article is about how older generations are holding younger generations hostage. Is that fair? Is that humane?
2) Yup, but I'm also quite sure that most people paying the 50p top tax rate are also in London and the South East, so we'd be swapping one "London and South East" tax for another; it's redistribution from "London and South East" to, er, "London and South East". And who says that the Mansion Tax is distribution from "old to young"? In theory you could earmark the tax for a higher basic state pension.
3) Right. So his starting point for the design of an efficient and equitable tax system is the 50,000 pensioners who have made unearned capital gains of millions of pounds at everybody else's expense? And as I've said before, how about giving people a £ for £ credit against income tax for every £1 they pay in Mansion Tax? If The Poor Widow In A Mansion can't pay it, she can put the house in the names of her children and grandchildren and they can pay it for her, which costs them effectively nothing.
And what is so terrible about downsizing? Doesn't it make good sense to sell your £1m house, buy somewhere nice for £200,000 and have £800,000 sloshing about in the bank? If a retired person owns a £200,000 flat or house and has £800,000 in the bank, they can hardly plead poverty and ask for special treatment, can they?
4) Complete bollocks, I'm afraid. You can't reduce your Business Rates or Council Tax bills by putting the land and buildings in somebody else's name, so why would a Mansion Tax be any different?
5) Conversely, capital gains tax on the sale of land and buildings (or indeed Stamp Duty Land Tax) is exactly the kind of tax you can avoid by using offshore companies. He doesn't know much about the practicalities of tax planning, does he?
6) Nonsense. Even the Morbidly Obese One admitted yesterday that it would cost on average £5 per home to value every home in the whole country.
7) Why? What is the big difference between a) a small, annual tax which you can roll up and pay when you die or sell, or b) a swingeing transaction tax (like capital gains tax, inheritance tax, stamp duty land tax), assuming they both raise the same amount in tax revenues? Apart from the fact that (a) is much more practical to implement, does not distort decisions so much and is more difficult to avoid, of course. For example, the TV licence fee raises slightly more than Inheritance Tax, which is the better way of raising money (notwithstanding that the TV licence fee is regressive)?
8) Oh yes it was quite deliberate, it's called Home-Owner-Ism, as manifested by the cowardice of politicians who caved in to these special interests and restricted new construction; replaced in-your-face taxes like Domestic Rates with all the stealth taxes (especially VAT and NIC); kept interest rates much lower than they would have been; turned a blind eye to the credit-house price bubble and so on.
9) Pointing at somebody else who is just as bad is not a defence. For sure, as a matter of private law, those pensions are due and payable, but as a matter of public law, the government is free at any time to levy a super-tax on all civil service pensions of over (say) £20,000 a year, that's that fixed.
Disturbance
33 minutes ago
20 comments:
If the tax were to be enacted then the markets would reach. After all who would buy a £1m+ pile if it mean you get taxes more.
The upstart of this would be that overpriced areas such as major parts of London and Southeast England would see some price deflation (and a lot of waling and gnashing of teeth). Oh and the little old widow stays put in her home, as she only needs somewhere to live and not a market driven investment vehicle called property.
Anon: I refer you to what I actually said:
"... as I've said before, how about giving people a £ for £ credit against income tax for every £1 they pay in Mansion Tax?"
How much do you think that somebody looking to buy a £1m house earns in a year, or pays tax in a year? £50,000? £100,000? As long as the Mansion Tax were fully off-settable against income tax etc it wouldn't make much difference to prices, would it? You could even argue it would push up selling prices, because the incremental cost of buying such a house is greatly reduced.
"the little old widow stays put in her home, as she only needs somewhere to live and not a market driven investment vehicle called property."
Correct. Why would anybody in their right mind not happy with 'somewhere to live' which costs £200,000 and £800,000 in the bank?
Another reality denier. He thinks we can solve economic problems by tiptoeing around the issue to avoid upsetting homeowners.
Sacrificing the UK's economy to protect a handful of asset rich (and by definition unproductive) pensioners is a tad short-sighted to say the least.
Would the author also support randomly handing out 250k lottery tickets and forcing the nation to provide each recipient with £10,000's worth of free services every year? Of course not! But when housing is involved suddenly this type of wealth transfer becomes justified.
I think it's time to end the freebies. Justifying them in terms of humantity just doesn't wash.
CD, that's the terrifying thing, it's far less than "a handful", it's about 50,000 people (according to his figures). That's barely a thimbleful.
"And what is so terrible about downsizing?"
Nothing. I've met pensioners who've downsized and also bought a caravan with the proceeds so they can spend the winter in Spain.
AKH, or we can ask the opposite question: if somebody has paid off the mortgage on his £200,000 house and sells his business for £800,000 shortly before he retires, or wins the lottery or inherits £800,000 or something, would you advise him to trade up into a £1 million house?
It's just amusing that commentators like this clown try and portray pensioners -who, his own admission- have acquired £millions in unearned capital gains as victims, whilst the young are seen as potential aggressors who want to rob the elderly of housing.
I'm sure there might be business that spring up (like in France) that "buy" the house and allow you to live their rent free (and in this case LVT free) until death.
AC1
I was reading the comments to the article, and there was one that I thought was brilliant:
"It reminds of my very early days as a taxman working on the stillborn wealth tax of the 70s - oh the tears we were asked to shed for the legions of penniless old ladies with nothing but a few Rembrandts on the living-room wall."
Who among us is going to stand up to defend the art galleries of poor widows? :)
CD, as to robbing, it is entirely unnecessary for these old people to move from their houses if they want to cut their LVT bill, all they have to do is allow enough new housing to be built and the value of the existing stuff would be diluted.
AC1, there you go, recommending market solutions again. Tsk tsk.
Snarf, that's the general idea though, isn't it? To use 50,000 old ladies as a human shield for all the Candy Brothers of this world.
" it is entirely unnecessary for these old people to move from their houses if they want to cut their LVT bill, all they have to do is allow enough new housing to be built and the value of the existing stuff would be diluted."
Firstly, you know that building new housing does not affect the price of existing housing, especially the sort of existing (i.e. old) housing that Poor Widows live in and secondly the whole object of the exercise is not to reduce the value of the PW's house, because then there'd be less for the heirs. It's the heirs kicking up the fuss, not the PWs.
B: "building new housing does not affect the price of existing housing"
At the very margin, maybe not. But as a thought experiment, let's imagine they built a new Garden City with 200,000 houses and plenty of space for commercial, schools etc. every year and sold the houses at cost price to every couple which got married in that year (assuming it was the first marriage for each partner).
The "old areas" would quickly shrivel and die (apart from a few town centres), because where do you think all the jobs and shops would go? And after thirty or forty years, each one of these Garden Cities would shrivel and die because it would just be full of pensioners. When the very last one dies or moves away, the town is worthless, everything can be bulldozed, then we build another new 200,000 and start again.
Well, yes, but the big difference from reality is selling the houses at cost price. John Prescott tried this somewhere in North Kent, I think. All that happened was that the houses very quickly changed hands again at market value (if they weren't sold for market value in the first place). Also PWs tend to live in old (i.e C19th and before) houses, of which the supply is by definition fixed. You can't build a new old house.
B: "All that happened was that the houses very quickly changed hands again at market value"
For sure, but in my thought experiment, to whom would you sell it? Why would anybody pay a much higher price for last year's new house if he can buy one of this year's new houses for half as much?
Because he's not a newly married and so doesn't qualify?
B, think it through: at present, our divorcee/bachelor is competing with a lot of newly married couples for one of a limited supply of houses. If you take them out of the equation, then the 'market price' for existing houses falls anyway.
Do you actually know how many Poor Widows there are? Has anyone ever asked them what they think or tried to explain this idea to them (perhaps if someone's mother was a Poor Widow)?
Anon: "Do you actually know how many Poor Widows there are?"
In terms of the Mansion Tax, which was supposed to be a tax on houses worth £1m plus, there are about 50,000.
"Has anyone ever asked them what they think or tried to explain this idea to them (perhaps if someone's mother was a Poor Widow)?"
If their children really cared for them, they'd advise them to sell their stupid £1m plus house, buy somewhere for a few hundred thousand, bank the difference and make the most of their last few years on this earth, take a round the world cruise, get their face in the local papers by giving money to a local charity, whatever.
But no, the children want her to stay exactly where she is so that they can inherit as much as possible.
Does it really matter how many PWs there are? It's the concept that's important, not the numbers. Once you start number crunching, you realise that the PW isn't really a problem, because you are starting to look at things logically. The purpose of the PWB is just that, to act as a bogey and make you think viscerally, not logically. It's a bit like anti-semitism, which does not need actual Jews to exist.
Usually I really like David Rennie (Bagehot), I think he's pretty much the best political commentator in the country and got quite excited when I saw he was discussing property taxes as he has clout. Unfortunately he didn't follow his analysis through to its reasonable conclusion. Good call Mark.
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