Just to show that the idiocy goes right to the top, here are two paragraphs from HM Treasury's "Tax policy making: a new approach" as reported in Hansard:
11. In this inquiry, we received many submissions advocating radical change to the tax system, such as the imposition of a land value tax. (1) The supporters of such a tax consider that it would tax economic rent rather than economic activity and would meet the OECD criterion that recurrent taxes on immovable property were the least harmful tax. However, as the CBI notes, "the OECD acknowledges that it is politically difficult (2) for governments to shift the tax base onto property." (3) The ICAEW warned "Our initial conclusion is that, even if such a move was desirable economically (4) and let alone whether it would be politically acceptable,(5) it would involve a major rebalancing of the UK tax system which would take time to achieve (6) and risks introducing considerable distortions and behavioural changes." (7)
12. Not only are there political difficulties: practical matters, such as the way in which such values would be assessed and the extent to which such a tax should take account of the current or the potential use of land, would also need careful consideration. (8) We also note concerns that "While such a tax system would avoid distortions in economic behaviour, (9) it would be highly unlikely to yield sufficient revenues to fund socially useful expenditure (10) without producing substantial inequity." (11)
1) Oops. I think I missed that one.
2) It is only "politically difficult" because the government and the powers that be generally have spent decades brainwashing people into thinking a) that taxing economic activity and wealth creation is a reasonable way of doing things and b) that house price rises are good for us.
3) I wish they'd say "land and buildings" to make it clear what they are talking about. In any event, the CBI ought to be speaking from the point of "British Industry" who are perfectly accustomed to paying Business Rates, which are so close to Land Value Tax as makes no difference.
4) It's "were" not "was" and actually it "is" and they must know that.
5) See (2).
6) Everything takes time, it all depends which taxes you replace first. So let's start by rolling all existing taxes which relate to residential land and buildings or 'wealth' generally into a flat tax on residential land values. The only real constraint on how quickly we did this is how quickly people can be de-brainwashed.
7) No! It's the current system which creates "considerable distortions", the fact that people would behave differently if there were no taxes on economic activity and only taxes on economic rent is an argument in favour of the latter.
8) They already have two models - Business Rates for commercial land and buildings and Domestic Rates in Northern Ireland. All the info we need is already held by HM Land Registry or on the Council Tax register after that it's just a question of bunging in the [current tax rate + a percentage of current selling prices] in each defined area to get a fair approximation of the rental value of land in each area, you tot these up to give you the rental value of all residential land in the UK (the tax base, Y); you then decide a figure for how much tax you want to raise (X), divide X by Y to give you the tax rate, apply X/Y to [the local rate x size of each plot in each area] and we're away.
It'll never be scientifically perfect, but any over- or under-estimates will iron themselves out, but so what anyway? Does the rate of VAT automatically adjust itself down so that marginal businesses are kept afloat, does it automatically adjust itself up on businesses which appear to be making super-profits (banks, from 2000 to 2007 or thereabouts)? I think not. Would it not be better to have a tax which allows 'the markets' to decide the rates in the same way as we currently decide rents and prices?
9) That's not what they said at (4), is it?
10) Wot? Do they not realise the circularity involved?
a) Even under current rules, the residual rental value of UK land is about £150 billion per annum. If we taxed that at 100% instead of just collecting £50 billion in Council Tax and Business Rates we could get rid of VAT and merge income tax and National Insurance into a flat income tax of about 30% with a generous personal allowance. Would that not be "socially useful"?
b) Shifting from taxes on activity to taxes on rents gets rid of the dead weight costs caused by the former, and this extra growth goes £ for £ back into higher rental values, so it's a virtuous circle.
c) Forecast total tax revenues for 2011-12 are £531 billion (excluding booze, fags and fuel duty), that works out at an average £20,000 per household (including taxes borne by 'businesses' which are indirectly borne by households). If the average household no longer has to pay £20,000 in income tax, VAT, NIC etc, there is no reason to assume that they wouldn't be able to pay that much in LVT.
d) Then there is the invisible half of the Laffer Curve which few people talk about. Although income tax revenues would be zero if the income tax rate were zero per cent, by how much would the economy grow? A tenth? A fifth? A quarter? There's only one way to find out! Most of that growth would go into higher land rental values, so in effect, the land value tax would pay for itself, and a household's average net income would increase by something approaching £20,000 per annum.
11) Even if it's only half that, well it's not to be sniffed at, is it? Deliberately depriving every household of £10,000 or £20,000 income every year out of political cowardice seems like "substantial inequity" to me.
Sunday, 24 July 2011
Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (148)
My latest blogpost: Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (148)Tweet this! Posted by Mark Wadsworth at 11:52
Labels: KLN, Laffer, Land Value Tax, OECD, Politicians
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20 comments:
Do we take that as a 'No' then?
SL, yes, that was merely another long list of non-arguments.
No it wasn't. They have given the one and only true killer argument against LVT - that it would be politically unacceptable. This is not because the country has been brainwashed, because we are far enough away from the next general election for what the voters think to matter, it is because the people who really run this country would have to pay a greater share of tax.
B, fair enough summary, although I stand by my contention that people are brainwashed - just look at the comments to that recent Daily Telegraph article, or any article about LVT for that matter.
But it's not so much the case that the beneficiaries of the current system would more tax, it's just that they'd collect less tax, i.e. the tax/rent/interest which they now collect privately would be collected publicly instead.
I have to admit to slight despair when I got to the end of that report. Do they really think the current system demonstrates equity! How do they substantiate LVT producing inequity given that all it does is allow people to keep earned income and then redistribute unearned incomes?!!!
Perhaps the best hope for LVTers is to focus on the concomitant cuts in VAT and income tax.
Agreed with DNAse about the disappointment. But I wouldn't go as far as despair since I don't expect anything else right now. The UK doesn't have a government with a strong commitment to LVT, and without that it's unlikely to happen. Of course it may happen one day. It happened in New Zealand during the 1900s, and in Denmark during the 1950s. And it nearly happened in the UK in 1909.
Which is one of the reasons why we all need to keep getting the word out. Conservative, Labour, LibDem, UKIP, SNP, Green, whatever. Doesn't matter what your broader political sensibilities might be. LVT/CI just makes sense and we need to keep reminding the party leaders, the rank and file and (especially) the general public why that is so.
DNAse: "Perhaps the best hope for LVTers is to focus on the concomitant cuts in VAT and income tax."
You'd be surprised. People seem to quite like income tax and VAT, and there are a lot of people who say that council tax (the last vestigial remnant of LVT) ought to be replaced with Local Income Tax. I can see the superficial appeal of this to be honest, it's only because I have learned economics the hard way that I prefer council tax.
Derek, no, I never despair. The task is difficult but not impossible.
Glad to hear it. One of the things I really like about your work on LVT/CI is that you've shown us an implementation roadmap. So it's now much easier to counter those who say that we can't get there starting from here. Kudos!
D, that's very kind.
One thing, I have come to not to agree with 'tax free allowances' on, in this case your proposed flat rate income tax. Everyone must pay soemthing otherwise they have no stake in the system and they will always vote for more tax on someone else. How about a flat income tax at 10% an all earnings? Tithes work for me. This of course assumes that I think income tax is a good idea, which for the record I do not.
L, yes of course. A citizen's income is much the same as a personal allowance, I just refer to the CI as a PA to keep the authoritarians happy.
Political acceptance,as indicated above, is the issue: the theoretical argument for LVT was won decisively in UK by 1850 (Ricardo,Smith,Mill),since when, the knobheads have fought a long rearguard action.Although I have pushed for the JS Mill version of LVT with various clip-ons (umbrella term Sentinel Tax), I think we might be better calling for a Land Price Freeze (with LVT scalping any upward movement) and dwelling on the advantages of the German sceanrio where house prices have n't risen since the Seventies.
Just out of interest, how close were the old "rates" to a land value tax? And what proportion of local spending did they collect? I.e. was the rates system just a token effort as council tax currently is?
BE, I wish I knew! AFAIAA, they were much more proportional to house values than is Council Tax and raised more money (the Tories hiked VAT in 1988-ish to make up the shortfall).
You can skip back to 1963 and include Schedule A tax as well (the precise workings of which is shrouded in the mists of history). I refer you to the immortal words of Dearieme's father circa 1963 on the abolition of Schedule A: "It's good for us, son, but not good for the country."
BE, as a separate issue, you asked a while back how you would estimate your annual LVT bill if we moved to a full-on system to replace ALL other taxes.
I do not know where your flat is etc, but at a wild guess I'll say 'Camden' which would be LVT £307 per square yard of land (from here), so if you live in a block of flats covering one acre and there are a hundred flats in the block, the bill per flat = 4,840 x £307 ÷ 100 = £14,859 a year, end of discussion. If there are only fifty flats, then it's twice that, £29,718 a year.
It's not Camden, but it might as well be for argument's sake. Hmm, how do I find out how much space my estate takes up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rates_%28tax%29#United_Kingdom
I've just remembered that Rates were calculated on a nominal rather than actual basis. I recall learning a bit about them when challenging my water rate a few years ago. I was told that the nominal value was based on things like proximity to the city centre, what sort of amenities there were nearby (e.g. post boxes, transport links) so maybe they were a measure in a way of the location value you promote?
I still can't work out why Thatcher thought it was a good idea to get rid of them.
BE: "how do I find out how much space my estate takes up?"
Pace it out, look at Google Maps, or if you can track down the NUTS/LAU map at the lowest level, it will show you actual plot boundaries (they're on the internet somewhere). HM Land Reg have already done all this.
"I still can't work out why Thatcher thought it was a good idea to get rid of them."
Because she started to realise the power of Home-Owner-Ism as a way of staying in government
(see also: council house sell-offs, see also: New Labour 1997 - 2010).
Yes, but while council house sales were wildly popular amongst both tenants and the wider electorate (NB she didn't invent the idea, the Labour party did) I do vaguely remember the abolition of rates and move to the poll tax because my mum was on the local council at the time. The main argument was that rates were somehow being abused by people who had lots of people living in one property. That doesn't seem quite like an amazingly popular argument in retrospect.
BE: "The main argument was that rates were somehow being abused by people who had lots of people living in one property."
I've seen that used as a Killer Argument Against LVT many a time. The Poor Widow always needs to be contrasted with somebody who 'should' be paying more.
An easy target is a house full of young people (esp. if they are well-earning young professionals), all chucking out litter and troubling the police etc, or Heaven forbid having kids and sending them to the local school.
These people, truly a burden on society (and who in now way are paying the Poor Widow's state pension and healthcare out of their income tax etc), are contrasted with the environmentally conscious and law abiding Poor Widow In A Mansion Who Has Paid Tax All Her Life.
This argument in turn goes back to the myth that "My council tax pays for local services" and by extension that LVT (being a tax on land and buildings) should only raise enough to cover the cost of 'local services' (however defined).
The Homeys have got all their propaganda in place!
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