Saturday 7 May 2011

Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (125)

David Cooper of ALTER did a fairly plain vanilla article in yesterday's Guardian, making it quite clear why Land Value Tax could and should replaced all taxes, he mentioned specifically income tax, which is easiest to understand, but really he means all other taxes.

He reaped the usual rich harvest of crap, the Poor Widow Bogey was played another couple of dozen times by people who didn't realise that we've heard this about a zillion times before and that this 'problem' can be fixed with exemptions, deferments, discounts, higher State Pensions or market solutions, such as trading down or simply asking your heirs to pay the tax if they really want to inherit the house (and if they don't want to inherit it, what's the point in trying to hang on to it?).

And most anti's merrily ignored the fact the LVT would be perfectly affordable for most people because there'd be correspondingly less income tax!

I can't be bothered to link to each individual Killer Argument, and two of these are paraphrased:
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This tax may have some effect on the very wealthy, although it can be avoided by offshore companies, complex lease arrangements and all sorts of other measures.

Nope. Let's look at, er, real life, shall we?

We have something called 'Business Rates' on non-residential buildings in the UK, which is quite similar to Land Value Tax, and a lot of commercial buildings are owned by offshore companies, a lot of them even have mortgages from UK banks secured on them, and a lot of houses are owned by such offshore companies as well. Collection rates for Business Rates or Council Tax are about 98%, far, far higher than any other kind of tax.

Sure, these taxes are legally payable by the occupier, not the owner, but it comes to the same thing. There is also a scheme that if an non-resident landlord does not keep up to date with his income tax returns, the tenant or managing agent has to deduct a flat 20% income tax from the rental payments and pay that to the tax office.

Exactly the same rules would apply under LVT:

If the tax due on any land falls into arrears, the tax office then asks the tenant to pay it and to deduct it from any rent they pay. If the occupants are not the legal owners and aren't paying rent, then they are either squatters (and so get booted out) or they are in fact the true owners of the building (and would rather pay than be booted out and have the land and buildings auctioned off).

Where the land and buildings are unoccupied, the tax is in arrears and the owner is untraceable, then clearly he's lost interest and the land and buildings can be auctioned off and the balance of the sale proceeds kept to one side for twelve years in case the owner claims it.
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And don't try to lecture me about 'complex lease arrangements', this is what I do for a living.

Sure, some people will be scammed if they pay rent in advance for a long period and the freeholder takes the money and does a bunk, but most of the time, the people who claim the right to possession on the basis of a long lease will be party to the attempt to avoid tax, so the existence of the lease can be ignored.

In any event, it all balances out. Somebody who has paid a large premium for a 99-year lease has a significant interest in the land, and the freeholder's interest is worth correspondingly less, so as and when the freehold is auctioned off for non-payment, the leaseholder will be able to enfranchise for a market price, hey presto, the former leaseholder is now the freeholder, he's an owner-occupier and he will pay the LVT in future.

Simples!
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But I bought my house out of taxed income? What gives the government the right to tax it again?"

a) Two wrongs don't make a right, I accept that the transition will be a bit icky for those who lose out in the short term (i.e. those whose house is worth a very high multiple of their current income) but that's no reason for sticking with a demonstrably bad tax system.

b) People didn't pay income tax in the past because they wanted to buy a house, they paid income tax because they had to, and that money was spent on much the same things as it would have been spent on if we'd always had Land Value Tax instead of income tax, and on the whole, the LVT which people would have paid is roughly equal to the income tax, NIC, VAT, Council Tax etc. which they actually have paid (or borne).
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If we introduced LVT, then all the high income people (who now receive their UK income tax free) would buy a house abroad and commute from there."

a) That's quite clearly bollocks, it simply wouldn't happen to any great extent and would be balanced out by wealthy people from overseas (including a lot of UK tax exiles elsewhere) returning to the UK.

b) If you bought a house in France and commuted to the UK, you'd incur significant extra commuting costs which would wipe out any tax saving AND once the French tax office realised you were French resident, they'd tax you on your income anyway.

c) There are also tax havens, like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, let's assume they charge no income tax on income from the UK. So high income people could (subject to anti-avoidance provisions) buy a house in these places (very expensive) and hopefully avoid UK income taxes anyway. How many of them do it? Not many. And if a lot of people tried to do it, this would just push house prices on those small islands through the roof, until they reach a level where it's cheaper staying in the UK and paying the LVT (remember that house prices in two countries will always adjust up or down so that tax arbitrage on a large scale is impossible).

d) Or you could move to Switzerland and go for lump sum taxation, which is a splendid scheme for foreigners, whereby they pay no income tax on their foreign income and are taxed on a notional income of five times the rent they pay (or five times the imputed rent for owner-occupiers), plus wealth tax (usually less than 1%) on a notional total wealth of a hundred times that same rent.

In other words, by and large, the tax you'd have to pay as a tax exile in Switzerland would be about eight per cent of the value of your home each year, much the same as the LVT we'd required in the UK to replace all other taxes.
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23 comments:

Bayard said...

"If you bought a house in France and commuted to the UK, you'd incur significant extra commuting costs which would wipe out any tax saving"

In the light of Thursday's election result, the border in question might not be the Channel, it might be the border with Scotland.

flashman said...

Hi Mark, I've written an anti LVT spoof. It wouldn't let me post it because it was too long. Do you want it?

Mark Wadsworth said...

B, maybe so, in which case house prices in the nicest bits of Scotland will be driven up to a level which soaks up the tax arbitrage.

F, I hope you copied it, email it to me at the address in the sidebar.

Mark Wadsworth said...

B, also don't forget that Scotland would tax your income if you were Scottish resident (same as French example) so you get the worst of both worlds by moving there.

flashman said...

m: Real men don't use spell check. I spent 15 minutes typing the thing and then lost it all. I'll type out a shorter version and send it over in a few minutes

Derek said...

I know how you feel, flash. That's happened to me quite a few times on this blog recently. Now I always do a last minute Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C to grab the text before posting Just In Case.

Mark Wadsworth said...

F, D, it's happened to me here as well, but I tend to only post long comments on my own blog, so is there something wrong with this blog or is it just long comments which Blogger doesn't like?

Bayard said...

"But I bought my house out of taxed income! What gives the government the right to tax it again?"

Try that with "car" substituted for "house" and see how far you get with DVLA.

Mark Wadsworth said...

B, yes another excellent point.

Fuel duty revenues in 2009-10 were £26.2 billion (i.e. more than Council Tax), plus £5.6 billion for Vehicle Excise duty, plus another £10 billion for VAT on new cars and lorries (2.5 million vehicles @ £4,000 each) and £10 billion for VAT on fuel (about a third as much as Fuel Duty itself).

Add on assorted bits and pieces like tax and NIC on P11D benefits, tolls, parking fines and we're well north of £50 billion a year on at depreciating real assets with a total market value at any time of £250 billion (25 million vehicles @ average £10,000 each?).

So you might as well say that you never really own your car, you just rent it from the government.

Anonymous said...

No, you do own your car but buy the right to use it on public roads from the government. Right? I believe you can drive on your own land without a license or insurance, and if you could grow your own fuel then you wouldn't need to pay duty either.

To add to Bayard's point, with LVT you would buy your house from untaxed income.

Bayard said...

"I believe you can drive on your own land without a license or insurance"

In ye olden days, there was a similar situation with taxation - if you were an outlaw, you paid no tax, but you received no protection from the state, so you could be killed with impunity.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, correct!

The tax you pay is for the value of the road system - which makes fuel duty in itself a very good tax (and all the other taxes I mentioned very bad taxes).

And you don't need to grow your own fuel - the tax on diesel used by farmers for tractors (i.e. on their own land and not on the roads) is only taxed at 11p per litre as against 60p for diesel for cars.

B, exactly.

Bayard said...

I think it would be good to reinstate outlawry, just so that all those anarchists could try it and see what it's like.

Anonymous said...

The LAND and the House (CAPITAL) are not the same. A car needs land to exists as does a house.

Mark W...
"So you might as well say that you never really own your car, you just rent it from the government."

You do not own land, the Queen (the state) owns that. You have freehold. The right to hold the land free without charge.

Anonymous said...

"Of the major parties, only the Conservatives lack a campaign group promoting LVT."

Why no Tory LVT movement? There are countless Tory LVTers.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, yes, there is that argument. But where does the 'free without charge' come from? And without charge for what? Are you saying that Business Rates, council tax, SDLT are somehow 'unconstitutional'?

Maybe they are, which is possibly why the way forward is Schedule A tax, i.e. dressing up the LVT as income tax on actual or notional rental income (which is the purist LVT'ers position).

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, the only Tory I know who openly backs LVT is Praguetory. In their weaker moments, Boris Johnson and Steve Norris have mumbled something in that direction, as well as possibly Brian Binley in Northampton.

Anonymous said...

LVT falls right in to the "free-market" ethos, reinforcing and stabilizing the free-market which many Tories carp on about. The free-market and LVT are perfect bed fellows.

Many of the landed Tories give the free-market lip service, which they no doubt want a "rigged market" to suit themselves. Henry George always stated, that ALL benefit. When he was thanked for being a champion of the poor he responded by stating he was a champion of all people.

Governments should be in the business are maintaining a free market not rigging it. LVT is the perfect tool to virtually automatically control the market.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, you're preaching to the converted :-)

But the FLs and Homeys will counter "But there is a free market in land, anybody can buy or sell to his heart's content" which is true of course, but that is about as relevant as saying "There was no such thing as slavery because anybody could buy or sell slaves to his heart's content."

The point being that when you are buying and selling land, you are buying and selling monopoly rights, you are not creating new wealth.

Anonymous said...

Mark W...
"Anon, yes, there is that argument. But where does the 'free without charge' come from?"

You are free to hold and use the land. I do believe initially it was to use the land in a productive manner, so you could not hold the land and let it stay idle. Taxation and other charges on it is a very different thing.

"dressing up the LVT as income tax on actual or notional rental income (which is the purist LVT'ers position)."

If that is the thin edge of the wedge for LVT then so be it.

I find that when you tell people they would pay no income tax, VAT, etc over their lives, they still have this fixation that what they will gain from the land under the semi is more overall. Also the transitional period frightens them, as they think they will lose, even if they agree with LVT in principle.

Anonymous said...

Mark W....
"But the FLs and Homeys will counter "But there is a free market in land, anybody can buy or sell to his heart's content"

Here lays the problem. LAND is not CAPITAL.

"There was no such thing as slavery because anybody could buy or sell slaves to his heart's content."

The slave may think differently.

"The point being that when you are buying and selling land, you are buying and selling monopoly rights, you are not creating new wealth."

On the button! As Martin Wolf stated, all we do is move the same money around the same house/land market. It circles around not moving out of the loop. Being no good to anyone except those in the loop.

Anonymous said...

Mark W..
"The point being that when you are buying and selling land, you are buying and selling monopoly rights"

The free-market operates brilliantly when unrigged and unmonopolised.

LAND is clearly monopolized as 0.3% of the population own approx. 70% of the UKs land. I have no knowledge of any gvmt that attempted to break this monopoly.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, the 0.3%/70% figure is skewed by small number of owners of farm land, which is relatively low value (and even has to be subsidised!).

And this is an effect, not a cause.

Even if a government shredded all title deeds and did a Mugabe, giving everybody land and buildings worth 1/62,000,000 of the total, it would STILL be a monopoly, just a more widely held one.

As the example of the USA shows - which did in fact dish out land on a first come first served basis - it only takes a century or two for the old pattern of concentrated ownership to reassert itself.