Friday 15 November 2019

"Climate change may be behind fall of ancient empire, say researchers"

From The Guardian:

The [Neo-Assyrian] empire emerged in about 912BC and grew to stretch from the Mediterranean down to Egypt and out to the Persian Gulf.

But shortly after the death of the king Ashurbanipal around 630BC, the empire began to crumble, with the grand city of Nineveh sacked in 612BC. By the end of the seventh century BC, the empire’s fall was complete. Now scientists say the reversal in the empire’s fortunes appears to coincide with a dramatic shift in its climate from wet to dry – a potentially crucial change in an empire reliant on crops...

Baldini added that the past can hold important lessons for the present – where fossil fuel use drives climate change.


That's hardly a blinding new insight. There are loads of examples of this happening in history, individual civilisations rising - and falling - as the weather became more - and then less - suitable for food production. The end of the Roman Warm Period ended the Roman Empire (probably).

Food production was the cornerstone of any empire until modern times, because if a few people can grow enough food for everybody, it frees up labour for empire-building (soldiers, administrators etc). Their downfall was usually a fall in food production in the areas they ruled over.

We note that:

a. That's not such a problem with a global economy, as it all evens out. Vikings in Greenland couldn't just export electronic components and then import food from somewhere else, they had to grow the food themselves or die.

b. The climate has always been changing, for better or for worse, independently of CO2 emissions, and we have muddled through somehow. Quite why "man-made climate change" (to the extent it even exists) is somehow worse than natural climate change (which clearly does exist) is never made clear.

c. What if it turns out - not that the Alarmists would ever admit it - that modest changes in global average temperatures have entirely natural causes, which are far beyond our control? Would it be panic over? Which strategies would scientists and economists be recommending then? Probably "muddle along and wait and see".

6 comments:

Shiney said...

Climate change might make previously unproductive areas productive with respect to food (we might be able to grow oranges and other citrus fruit in Southern England) or we could adapt and grow food in city sized controlled environments and suck the co2 in from outside.

Or something else..... we just don't know.

Which makes all this planning a waste of time as the solution will emerge based on market forces if we allow the market to operate in a fairly unfettered way (aka 'we'll muddle along' tm Mark Wadsworth 2019).

Ralph Musgrave said...

Re "b", the answer is that while climate changes in SPECIFIC areas, like the neo-Assyrian area, or Europe in the little ice age around 300 years ago, have always been taking place, what’s happening now is GLOBAL. That explains why the sea level is rising.

Bayard said...

The global climate has always changed, too. Graphs of climate over the last few hundred thousand years demonstrate this, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record#/media/File:EPICA_temperature_plot.svg . Also the Mediaeval Warm Period is also a global phenomenon where temperatures were as warm, if not warmer, than they are now.

"What if it turns out - not that the Alarmists would ever admit it - that modest changes in global average temperatures have entirely natural causes, which are far beyond our control?"

We won't be told. Anyone who spouts such heresy will rightly be denounced as a denier and in the pay of Big Oil.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Sh, "Climate change might make previously unproductive areas productive with respect to food" Exactly, it can and will. It all evens out.

RM, why is global warming or cooling worse than localised warming or cooling? Sea level rises are greatly exaggerated anyway.

B, according to the Alarmists' version of events. global temperatures have stayed within narrow bands for millennia and what is happening now is unprecedented. Apart from real life examples they choose to highlight that we're all going to starve, like Neo-Assyria, of course.

Penseivat said...

Oh, those Neo-Assyrians have a lot to answer for, inventing climate change with their overuse of diesel engines!
Mr Baldini appears to be quoting from The Bumper Book of Guesswork" where his personal views select specific bits of information.
If man made catastrophic climate change is not a myth, perhaps he could explain what caused the climate change that ended the last ice age?

Mark Wadsworth said...

Pen, "perhaps he could explain what caused the climate change that ended the last ice age?"

Easy - the answer is "Ah yes but that's different."