Monday, 2 October 2017

Fun Online Polls: Crash for cash; Brexit and Catalonia

The results to last week's Fun Online Poll were as follows:

Certain parts of Birmingham, Bradford, Manchester and Oldham topped the league for Crash for Cash. Do these areas have anything else in common?

No - 3%
Yes, but I'd rather not say it out loud - 63%
Yes, it's… [please specify] - 33%

Of those who had the nerve to say something, six said what I was thinking. But it's probably a complete coincidence. What's worrying is that two-thirds of respondents - me included - don't dare say what they think.

Thanks to all sixty who took part, as ever!
People's views on Catalania's possible independence raise some interesting questions, if you compare and contrast with their views on Brexit.

I'm a small government liberal-cum-troublemaker, so I was all in favour of the Scottish independence referendum and had no strong view either way (it being none of my business); I voted leave in the EU referendum; and I see no reason why Catalonia shouldn't become independent, they've made their views perfectly clear for long enough. That is, I think, an intellectually coherent approach.

The stereotypical lefties are dead against Brexit but are in favour of Catalan independence; the conservative-nationalists were against Scottish independence, were in favour of Brexit and are against Catalan independence. I can see some sort of pattern in either case.

I'm just not sure about the fourth category - people who are against Brexit and against Catalan independence. Putting EU shills* and Spanish nationalists to one side, where do they fit in? Are they left-conservative? Scared of any change ever? The 'liberal metropolitan elite' or those aspiring to be?

So that's this week's Fun Online Poll, just to see how many are in this mystery fourth category.

Vote here or use the widget in the sidebar.

* UPDATE: I think the EU's official statement (h/t @ProfSteveKeen) makes their position clear enough:

Under the Spanish Constitution, yesterday's vote in Catalonia was not legal.

For the European Commission, as President Juncker has reiterated repeatedly, this is an internal matter for Spain that has to be dealt with in line with the constitutional order of Spain.

We also reiterate the legal position held by this Commission as well as by its predecessors. If a referendum were to be organised in line with the Spanish Constitution it would mean that the territory leaving would find itself outside of the European Union.

Beyond the purely legal aspects of this matter, the Commission believes that these are times for unity and stability, not divisiveness and fragmentation.
We call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue. Violence can never be an instrument in politics. We trust the leadership of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to manage this difficult process in full respect of the Spanish Constitution and of the fundamental rights of citizens enshrined therein.

Are they mental? How can a vote not be "legal"? It might not be in any way binding, being more of an opinion poll/peaceful protest, but neither of those are actually illegal, are they?


Lola said...

I pretty well always say what i think svout issues like these. I obviously don't say things like 'my god you're ugly' to a lady.

hreward2 said...

The Catalonia spat is weird .Cat has the euro and wants to be ruled by the EU from Brussels . Just like Scotland seemed to want . Rule from Brussels is NOT Independence whichever way you cut it . The EU is quite happy to Balkanise Britain and Spain . These old national borders are what the EU is there to eradicate . Next stop ,global Gov .
The Brexit and Catalexit do not equate . Only Brexit is for true Independence ( if we get rid of Appeaser May ) .

Graeme said...

Catalan independence is an area to steer clear of. It is not at all as clear cut as the Nats declaim

An 81% vote for independence on a 35% poll is not much of a mandate

Mark Wadsworth said...

L, that sort of comment is frowned upon :-)

H, the EU 'leaders' who have spoken up seem to be against Cat independence, they didn't speak out in favour of Scottish independence either. They blew hot and cold on whether Scotland could automatically join/stay in (they knew that most Scots want to stay in the EU).

And yes, I take your point that it's a bit futile breaking away from the UK or Spain and remaining part of the EU.

Mark Wadsworth said...

G, I'm neither Spanish nor Catalan (nor Scottish) and it's not up to me, it's up to them to decide. AFAICS they have decided, maybe they haven't.

Lola said...

Re Catalonian independence.

paulc156 said...

Orwell definitely would have been in favour. Strong libertarian tradition going back to civil war and earlier. Spanish reaction reminds me of the northern states reaction to the southern secession which led to civil war. Catalonia is too wealthy for Spain to contemplate letting it slip away.
Graeme. The irony is that Spain's aggressive response has probably strengthened the independence movement quite significantly.

L. That 'ugly lady' comment reminds me of something Churchill was quoted as saying.
When some old aristocrat told him he was drunk, he responded along the lines "and you madam are ugly, but I will be sober in the morning!"

Graeme said...

Paulc, since the indy movement was more mouthy than numerous, it strikes me as yet more stupidity from the Juncker - Tusk - Verhofstadt team. If these guys are leading the trade bloc, what hope is there? They, and the vague principles they sometimes almost get to espousing, are why I voted Brexit

Rich Tee said...

Regarding the crash for cash survey, it has been pointed out that Luton is nowhere to be seen in the statistics, despite having the characteristic shared by the other areas.

L fairfax said...

I am pro Brexit but regarding Catalan independence I want them to decide either way.
Can that be an option?
Saying that they are not really trying to independent - they want to still be in the EU and use the same currency as Spain - so why bother?

jack ketch said...

As to the current nonsense in Spain (and I need only say the word ‘Gibraltar’ to sum up the Spanish state’s inherent fascism) I have a sneaking suspicion the Catalan leaders knew precisely how Spain would react and banked on it.

Both the Catalan and Spanish governments are anti-democracy IMO. As were the Scottish government and the Brexϟϟshiteurs.True democracy would be that a regional parliament votes and a ‘constitutional majority’ (about 70% most places) votes for independence. Referendum are poison for democracy and little more than mob rule.

Bayard said...

"Referendum are poison for democracy and little more than mob rule."

The "mob" are the people. The people are the "demos" that is doing the ruling in a democracy. I think you need to consult a dictionary.

Agreed, referendums don't sit well with "Westminster democracy", but that isn't really democracy, it's just the a fancy name for an elected dictatorship.

jack ketch said...

@Bayard "Westminster democracy", but that isn't really democracy, it's just the a fancy name for an elected dictatorship."

I wouldn't disagree, although instead of 'westminster' I'd say 'parliamentary' and yes it is an elected dictatorship because that is the only form of 'democracy' that works sorta most of the time (as Churchill famously said 'least worst form'). Unfortunately the mob- ie thee and me- are incapable of ruling themselves directly. Like it or lump it,in this country, we elect MPs to a sovereign parliament as much as to protect us from ourselves as to 'represent' our wishes...perhaps the more so. Which is why , for as long as I can remember, politicians of all parties have refused calls for a referendum on capital punishment (for example)-yet as recent polls have shown , the majority (and a real majority not just a piddling couple of percent) would probably be in favour of hanging 'paedos'...along with caning small children, beign allowed burglars and deporting anyone what talks funny.

jack ketch said...

"beign allowed burglars " = "being allowed to shoot burglars"