Ross over at Unenlighted Commentary falls into the trap of celebrating the "Extra Bank Holiday" announced by the government.
The misunderstanding over the "Extra Bank Holiday" is not too dissimilar to Romans celebrating when the emperor put feasts on for them, despite the fact that the people had been taxed higher in the first place. The idea that an extra bank holiday is a benefit belongs with the same sort of thinking applied by investors in perpetual motion machines.
On the surface, the extra bank holiday looks like a benefit. You get a day off that you weren't expecting. Yay! But, if you are receiving payment for sitting around drinking WKD in the back garden, then that cost is transferred to someone else. Someone has to pay for your extra day of drinking WKD. The reason why people don't see the downside of the extra bank holiday is that it's hard to see the costs as they are applied thinly and across many goods and services over a period of time. The self-employed and employers see the costs more clearly.
If we have an extra bank holiday, we give an extra day off to the butchers, bakers and candlestick makers along with all the other different types of workers in this country. The employer of the candlestick maker now has to pay for his employee getting paid while not making candlesticks for him. As this applies to all candlestick makers, he has no reason to reduce his costs, so will put the extra costs onto the candles that are sold. So, next time you buy a packet of candles, you pay a fraction of a penny more. This doesn't sound like a problem, except that it's a fraction of a penny on everything with a labour cost, from butchers, bakers and candlesticks to ditch-diggers, tapas bar owners and staff at the Apple store. While it's hard to see, you are paying for all that time off.
So, at best, the extra bank holiday is a zero-sum result. However, bank holidays have a number of downsides. Firstly, certain services become unavailable, especially government services. Things that we might wish to do are not available to us in a way that they would be available if holidays were distributed. Secondly, they create abnormal peaks of demand. Rather than road and flight use or zoo visits being smoothed out, there is excessive demand for them. The cost of your flight or the extra time spent on a journey, or the time it takes you to get into the zoo are increased. Thirdly, they are an infringement on our liberty, that the government should choose when we take our leave from work rather than us doing so.
Get involved with AI says Starmer
8 hours ago
17 comments:
Classic bureaucratic / statist obfuscation then. Concentrate the benefits. Distribute the costs
Agreed (how boring). We can extend the principle to most government pork barrel spending, in fact we can extend it to nearly everything the government does above and beyond carrying out its core functions.
Spoken like a true beancounter! :D
The employer of the candlestick maker now has to pay for his employee getting paid while not making candlesticks for him.
Maybe. Maybe not.
1) Production is done to order, not to time. The most likely result of a bank holiday is that time missed due to bank holidays gets made up in intensity in surrounding days. There won't be many places with order books so full that they literally cannot work any harder.
2) In any case, most manufacturing employees are waged are they not, and I thought waged employees didn't get paid on bank holidays? I know I never used to...
Firstly, certain services become unavailable, especially government services.
That's an argument against weekends and nighttime, too. Indeed any time off.
It reminds me of a story I heard of a tech company (I don't remember who) that had a day once a year when everyone in the company was free to work on anything they wanted, the only proviso being that they would be prepared to share with everyone else what they did that day. That day ended up being the day where most of their good ideas came from.
Secondly, they create abnormal peaks of demand
Very true.
Thirdly, they are an infringement on our liberty, , that the government should choose when we take our leave from work rather than us doing so.
True enough, although I think there does need to be an appreciation that there are times when it's simply not worth an employer getting everyone in because of what everyone else is doing. We shut down completely between Christmas and New Year's for example.
It's like the snow. In local government land, when it snows, loads of people refuse to come to work as it is "too dangerous".
The same people castgate you for driving to work in the snow and being "dangerous".
But what if it snows for a month and everyone stays at home?
We usually work bank holidays without extra payment. There be some for this though as it is an extra and was not negotiated out of our conditions of service.
"But what if it snows for a month and everyone stays at home?"
If you are talking about Localgovernmentland, I doubt anyone would notice.
"Secondly, they create abnormal peaks of demand."
Especially in demand for time off, with the result that two bank holidays in one week means that the whole country shuts down for that week and the previous Friday, like at Christmas.
"I thought waged employees didn't get paid on bank holidays?"
I think they do, but not on this extra bank holiday. That will have to come out of annual holiday entitlement, AFAIK.
Fraggle: I tend to agree. Certain people in the anti-sunday-closing camp argue that we are losing out on one day of economic growth, I find that this doesn't stack up if it's only one extra day of retail-trading, but it may if extra labour and production is added to the total maybe(?)
I'm with fraggle and Kj on this one. While we may lose a bit of production on the actual bank holiday, we gain extra demand for beer, barbecue goods, sun-screen (ha!), etc. which means more work on days other than the bank holiday. As far as the economy is concerned it probably comes out as a draw.
fraggle,
1) Production is done to order, not to time. The most likely result of a bank holiday is that time missed due to bank holidays gets made up in intensity in surrounding days. There won't be many places with order books so full that they literally cannot work any harder.
2) In any case, most manufacturing employees are waged are they not, and I thought waged employees didn't get paid on bank holidays? I know I never used to...
In candlestick making, maybe. Not if you're writing software. And if you have to "increase intensity", that has additional costs in terms of risks to quality.
And yes, manufacturing may not get paid, but civil servants do, for example.
That's an argument against weekends and nighttime, too. Indeed any time off.
No. People need to rest. They need breaks and leisure time to enjoy. The question is whether people do it at a time of their choosing or when the government imposes it upon them.
It reminds me of a story I heard of a tech company (I don't remember who) that had a day once a year when everyone in the company was free to work on anything they wanted, the only proviso being that they would be prepared to share with everyone else what they did that day. That day ended up being the day where most of their good ideas came from.
I have no problem with companies choosing to do things like this. Their money, their decisions. Completely different from state imposition.
True enough, although I think there does need to be an appreciation that there are times when it's simply not worth an employer getting everyone in because of what everyone else is doing. We shut down completely between Christmas and New Year's for example.
Christmas is a time when families get together. Everyone being off allows that to be co-ordinated, so it works for everyone. It's a permanent fixture in almost everyone's calendar. While I would still make a case that it's government-imposed, there are at least justifications based on social benefit to offset it.
The jubilee bank holiday is simply about monarchist propaganda, that those people that haven't thought things through will connect the monarchy with getting a free day off . They want to maximise how many people turn out to see events, and many of them will do so as they have nothing else planned on an imposed day's holiday. Were people to have an alternative option, many would not take the day off to see these events.
On top of that, many people will make a cargo cult link between their day off and the monarchy, that without the monarchy, they wouldn't get their "extra" "free" day off.
Derek,
I'm with fraggle and Kj on this one. While we may lose a bit of production on the actual bank holiday, we gain extra demand for beer, barbecue goods, sun-screen (ha!), etc. which means more work on days other than the bank holiday. As far as the economy is concerned it probably comes out as a draw.
It's not a draw. If it was, you'd be able to do it every day.
Now, I'm not saying here that people shouldn't take time off. I'm simply trying to explain that extra "free" bank holidays are nothing of the sort. You pay, one way or another for the time that you don't work. That includes things like annual leave, which is one of the reasons why people like me that work freelance get paid a lot more per day - we don't get paid leave.
TS wrote: It's not a draw. If it was, you'd be able to do it every day
Fair enough but I look on it a bit like the CD. If the CD was so high that we could all live a life of luxury, that would be a bad thing; if it was zero, that would be a bad thing too. But there's a sweet spot where the CD provides enough cash to alleviate poverty but not so much that it causes hyperinflation.
It's the same with holidays. If there are none then we're all wage slaves; if every day is a holiday, we starve; but there's a sweet spot in between. Below that spot every extra holiday is a benefit; above that spot every holiday is a cost.
Is this extra holiday putting us over the top? Maybe, I don't know. But most other countries in Europe seem to be able to afford more holidays than the UK does, so we're probably okay.
All I know is that it cost us £3,500 (plus NI extras, natch) on staff wages we are still paying which aren't covered because we will have to bill £9,000 less for the loss of a day ... just like last year.
Still, no crying over spilt milk and all that, I'm going to enjoy the longer weekend nevertheless. As I did the wedding one. :)
I'm looking forward to the riots in a couple of months' time.
Means an extra £1.22 interest (gross) from Lloyds for me!
In case nobody gets it, lloyds pays interest on weekends based on your end-of-Friday balance, even if you withdraw it all out on Saturday (and put it in another interest-bearing account)
Derek,
It's the same with holidays. If there are none then we're all wage slaves; if every day is a holiday, we starve; but there's a sweet spot in between. Below that spot every extra holiday is a benefit; above that spot every holiday is a cost.
And who gets to decide that? You?
When I was 18 and 19, I 6 day weeks, and loved it because I was learning so much. I traded being bored on Sundays with going to work and earning money and the money I earned allowed me to do things like buying a car and take girls out to clubs.
"On top of that, many people will make a cargo cult link between their day off and the monarchy, that without the monarchy, they wouldn't get their "extra" "free" day off."
Well, the last extra free day off we got before this latest rash was May Day, and that wasn't just a one-off, it was permanent and nothing to do with the monarchy.
I have to correct my earlier comment. I'd be enjoying the extended weekend more if the bloody cricket hadn't been rained off!
DP count yourself lucky, I'm one of the "reluctants" who ended up tramping up and down The Thames trying to find the best viewpoint and getting increasingly rained as he did so.
As to the comments, we seemed to have veered off the topic a bit. What it boils down to is this: if the government announces a day off, then it's called a Bank Holiday and we are supposed to be grateful. If the entire workforce of this country announces a day off, then it's called a General Strike.
We could save a lot of hassle by allowing the leaders of the TUC to announce one official day off per year. They can call it a General Strike if they want, everybody else can call it a Bank Holiday :-)
Post a Comment