I like the IFS. When Labour were in charge, they were seen as right wing, now that the Tories are in charge, they are seen as left wing. In truth they are completely neutral, they just crunch numbers.
The Guardian has done a very favourable write-up of IFS Green Budget Chapter 8:
The idea is to cut income and business taxes while introducing a land value tax to end our obsession with property and to encourage paid work... the Institute for Fiscal Studies has thrown its weight behind OECD proposals for a shift away from income taxes to consumption [wot?] and wealth taxes (1)... The OECD has proposed cutting income taxes and business taxes across its developed world membership and introducing a land value tax (LVT) to end this obsession with property and encourage paid work...
The bankruptcy of the Liberal Democrat plan to raise the personal allowance threshold to £10,000 is that it seeks to impose a higher burden on middle income earners within the same tax structure. If their mansion tax illustrates a desire to tax wealth (1), like the IFS, they should switch to an LVT. Almost anyone with a mansion can void the current charges on its sale: a higher tax makes no difference. An LVT is unavoidable.
1) For the umpteenth time, LVT is not a wealth tax. Wealth taxes are bad taxes in principle and in practice (they never raise much money) and LVT is a user-charge, but let's gloss over that.
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Inevitably, there are some cracking 'Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not' in the comments:
Nofluer: When a government imposes a land value tax, aka "property tax" the government becomes the real owner of the land with the "owner" who bought the land becoming the equivalent of a renter, and the tax represents their rent payment to the government. If the tax is not paid, the "owner" is evicted by the government... which has become the REAL owner of the land. Imposition of property / LVT is confiscation of wealth without compensation.
In addition, imposing an LVT takes away land as a secure investment option for the lower classes. Whether the value/price of land goes up or down, if the owner has completely paid for the land, they can always live there (rent free) and probably grow food there.
The imposition of an LVT is another step toward the enslavement of the masses.
All of which can be neatly thrown back in his face thusly:
When a government imposes income tax aka "corporation tax", the government becomes the real owner of labour or business with the "worker" who does the work or the "entrepreneur" who built up the business becoming the equivalent of a slave, and the tax represents their tribute to the government. If the tax is not paid, the "worker" or "entreprenuer" is evicted by the government... which has become the REAL owner of the means of production. Imposition of income tax/corporation tax/VAT/NIC is confiscation of wealth without compensation.
In addition, imposing income tax takes away half the income of the working and middles classes. When incomes go down, the government just increases tax rates. Even if the worker or entrepreneur has paid for his own training or all the set-up costs, they cannot keep all their incomes (tax free) and use it to pay for essentials.
The imposition of income tax is the final step toward the enslavement of the masses by landowners, bankers and governments.
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More discussion over at HPC.
Oh Fuck Off!
1 hour ago
11 comments:
I like the way especially it sticks the boot into the Mansion Tax which I've long argued bears little resemblance to LVT :) Nice to have IFS on board with it.
(nice captcha, for me…"miesses")
Just a quick question. In your estimation what percentage of Conservative MPs think (in private at least) that LVT should be put into legislation?
I only ask because some campaigners seem to think that change will only occur from the grass roots. I can't really see this myself. Perhaps naively, I believe our politicians should lead not chase short term opinion polls.
So what's to be done?
Anon, in private, a surprisingly high number recognise the merits of LVT, but they all then say "Ah, but it's political suicide so let's not do it."
"Almost anyone with a mansion can void the current charges on its sale: a higher tax makes no difference"
Any idea what this means?
B, either it's gibberish or he's confusing Mansion Tax with the 5% SDLT which you can avoid by owning a home via a company, preferably offshore registered to avoid teh 0.5% Stamp Duty on share transfers.
the logic of the Nofleur comment is generally correct. If you don't have a cash income you're not forced to pay income tax. If you don't buy VAT rated goods you dont pay VAT. Everyone has to live somewhere so LVT is simmillar to a poll tax.
Don't forget you lump owner occupiers in with landlords, large land owners, land hoarders and buisinesses.
Den, no, Nofluer is talking hysterical crap.
For a start, around a third or a half of homes would have LVT that is so low it is covered by the personal allowance or Citizen's Income.
Further, it's not difficult to imagine a world where there is absolutely no income tax, VAT etc, and where everybody rents their home from the council or an investment fund or whatever. And it's not difficult to imagine that the only tax in existence is a high tax on that rental income, which is spent on core functions of the state and the rest dished out as Citizen's Income.
Sure, people would have to budget a bit so that they have some money tucked away to pay the rent if they lose their jobs - but they have to do that anyway. Far fewer people would lose their jobs in a country with no taxes on income or profits (there'd be no land price bubble driven recessions) and investment returns would be far higher, so it would be much easier to save up as well.
"Don't forget you lump owner occupiers in with landlords, large land owners, land hoarders and buisinesses."
Land is land is land, and LVT is LVT, it is payable by whoever chooses to occupy any bit of land, regardless of their status. If you don't want to pay so much, then trade down.
You're argument is about as pointless as saying "Fuel duty is unfair because the same rate is payable by rich people, poor people, commuters and Mums dropping off the kids at school."
"Everyone has to live somewhere so LVT is simmillar to a poll tax."
No it isn't. Everyone has to live somewhere, but not everyone has to own land. Tenants are not second-class citizens and a fair proportion of tenants are not frustrated would-be owner-occupiers.
In regard to your answer "Anon, in private, a surprisingly high number recognise the merits of LVT, but they all then say "Ah, but it's political suicide so let's not do it.""
I've just checked out your e-petition. 342.
The e-petition for getting the complete series of Shooting Stars released on DVD is ten times higher!
Do any of you LVTers have a strategy for getting the issue moved up the political agenda or is it just an interesting hobby?
As a suggestion, why don't you start a registry of MP's and send them all a questionnaire asking them where they stand on LVT and what objections they have, practicable or otherwise? That way, at least you would have what they think on record and a tool that enables you to lobby the ones who need persuasion.
I'd like to write to my MP to find out his opinion. If I were able to see what his arguments where first by accessing such a registry, I'd be able to compile a more affective letter.
Anyway, just a thought.
Benjamin Weenen
BW, I think the C4EJ have done something a bit like that, get in touch with them.
MW, excellent use of the "slave" term lad.
Benjamin. Excellent question. In the right spirit. Imagine this:
23 million home owners
2.5 citizens per home
All wanting to keep the increasing house price, in vain mostly
90% of the population. Call them the 99%.
The first politician to stand up and propose LVT? How long before he would be re-electable do you think?
About the lifetime of a mortgage perhaps?
This is not about the corrupt politicians. Or the thieving banks. Its US the people.
Now then. Do you want to join us in the cause?
Ive been trying to explain this to Occupiers, many are home owners. All others aspire to be.
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