Thursday, 6 October 2011

Embedded rent

From the BBC:

The cheapest pint of beer is 28p cheaper in pubs in the north of England compared with south-eastern hostelries, a survey suggests... Rates and rents were often higher for London publicans and that could be reflected in the cost of a drink, said Tony Jerome, spokesman for the Campaign for Real Ale (Camra).

Like I've always said, goods which can be freely transported around the country cost more or less the same everywhere in the country. Stuff which can't (i.e. land) costs wildly different amounts depending on where in the country it is (we are talking a factor of a million between the cheapest and the most expensive).

There is an intermediate category of goods/services which have to be consumed at or very near the point of purchase, where there is some difference in price, beer being a good example, I refer to that extra 28p in the south-east as "embedded rent".

But Camra have got their explanation upside down; land owners in London can't just set rents however high they please, the point is that pub landlords can sell their beer for higher prices (more tourists, people have more money etc) and so they just do. The unit cost of serving beer is not much higher in London that anywhere else, so the difference is soaked up by the landowners in higher rents. And the business rates come out of the rents which the landowner would have collected anyway, they are not in addition to them.

13 comments:

Tim Almond said...

CAMRA are economically clueless. I used to be a member and it was what got me to quit - it's run by, and most of its members are Guardian readers.

What's ironic is how much they complain about how easy it is to convert a pub to something else, which is causing pubs to close, but you'll struggle to find a mention of the smoking ban.

Anonymous said...

Foot in mouth, a new desease.
Land can't be transported, wrong.
The spoil from the building of the M27 is now a marina complex off the south coast of Hmapshire.
Engage brain before opening gob.

Steven_L said...

Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns did soak up all the extra value in dry and wet rents during the boom.

But we all know how that ended up come the bust.

Anonymous said...

Yet another needless misunderstanding of LVT because the L stands for Land and not for Location...

Bayard said...

Anon, I refer you to my previous comment. If you want to recaim land from the sea, you have to get permission from the owner of the sea bed, which is, of course, the Crown. So you have not created any land, you've just raised the level of some existing land to above sea level.

Oh, and where is Hmapshire? anywhere near Wlitshire? Engage eyes before operating clicking finger.

Anonymous said...

So the Port Solent marina complex is not land, has no worth, produces no income - does not exist, you are soooo funny.
I see your lap dog Bayard can spell, it's Wiltshire not Wlitshire

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, you are genuinely deluded if you cannot tell the difference between land/location on the one hand and "buildings" or "rocks and soil" on the other.

What would all the spoil from the M27 be worth if you had to pay to dump it somewhere? Then the owner of the site where you dump it would again be the winner because he owns LAND and you just have "rocks and soil"

And you are the one who can't spell the names of English counties, clearly B's joke was lost on you.

Mark Wadsworth said...

SL, indeed, a lot of these spectacular bankruptcies arose because of speculation in rents. And the smoking ban.

F, yup, but we are stuck with "Land value tax" as a term and that is the end of that. People like Anon can't tell the difference anyway.

Bayard said...

"I see your lap dog Bayard can spell, it's Wiltshire not Wlitshire".

Are you seriously telling me you read "Hmapshire" twice in two different posts and didn't notice it was spelt wrong?

Anonymous said...

Anon, you are genuinely deluded if you cannot tell the difference between land/location on the one hand and "buildings" or "rocks and soil" on the other.
What a prize winning statement.
30 odd years ago It was WATER, now, it's the OTHER stuf - Land.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, 30 years ago it was land with water above it, now it's land which has been built up so that part of it sticks above sea level.

You say you are talking about a marina so I suspect that most of the land is still covered with water. So they presumably just built some piers and jetties, i.e. enabling people to access the water better.

So we establish, just because land has water above it doesn't make it valueless, I'm sure the harbour in Monte Carlo is worth billions, and the canals in Amsterdam must be worth a lot because people pay rent to have their houseboats moored there. It all depends where the water is.

Similarly, while your Marina people took rocks and stones and built piers and jetties to enable people to access the water better, in olden times, people used to dig canals to enable people to access the land better. So by putting water on top of land (in the canals) they increased the value of the land (they could charge the boats a toll if there was a canal).

Anonymous said...

Answer the questions.
Is Port Solent Marina land or not land?
Was not that land TRANSPORTED from the, now, M27 site.
If it wasn't transported, did it just appear overnight?

Mark Wadsworth said...

Anon, the marina is land in the same way as a lake or a canal is land. Why do you think they built canals? Do increase or reduce land values? What do you think would happen to tourism in The Lake District if there were no lakes?

When you build a canal, you remove rocks and soil from land and replace it with water; when you build a marina, you dump rocks and soil into shallow water to create piers and jetties.

Perhaps I should remind you that the sea bed is LAND, the value of which can be increased by building a harbour or marina, in the same way as you can increase the value of a swamp or marsh by draining it.

They often advertise the fact that a house or flat overlooks a river or canal etc, the river or canal forms part of the view and hence part of what adds to the value of the house or flat. Ditto houses with a view of the beach.

Or imagine you have a choice between two farms, which are very similar, but one has a river or stream running through it, which might be handy if there's not enough rain and you need extra water for irrigation. Which one is worth more?

In case Fraggles' clue bat wasn't enough for you, "land" does not just mean "dry land" it includes the sea, rivers, lakes, canals etc.

They are all "land" for these purposes, and as we see from real life, land which is right next to water often has a higher value (view, good for boating-harbours-transport, nice atmosphere, no danger of more development) even though there is a cost involved in building sea defences etc.

I trust that this answer is sufficient for your purposes, and take it that you now sign up to the concept of going back to the old ways, scrapping all taxes on real wealth or earned income and restricting the government to collecting taxes on land values only :-)