Tuesday, 10 August 2010

iDave parrots Labour

From the BBC:

David Cameron has defended plans to use credit rating firms to "go after" people fraudulently claiming benefits (1)...

"If you are entitled to welfare and can claim it then you should claim it but if you are not entitled to it you should not get and should not claim it." (2)

He said the £1.5bn a year fraud was enough to pay for 40,000 NHS nurses (3), and cutting fraud, error and waste in the benefits system was the "first thing" the government ought to do as it cuts spending...


1) To heck with that, it's just an excuse for more government contracts to fakeprivatecompanies. The problem is the Yuman Rights Act and Data Protection nonsense that prevents the police or DWP from making the most basic checks. A few years ago I contacted Scotland Yard vis à vis some terrorists who had been renting a one-bedroom flat from me (long story), and one of the many multiple identities they had registered was a woman who had had a baby in the hospital round the corner. I asked the officers why they didn't just pop round there and do a bit of digging but they told me that the maternity unit would refuse to tell them anything.

Neither could they check up on the National Insurance contributions records (there were letters with NI numbers on them) or ask the DSS/HMRC which passports had been presented to support the applications for NI numbers. Even the bank statements looked weird - instead of add amounts going in regularly (benefits or wages) and small, regular withdrawal of £10 or £20; small, round amounts were being paid in and a round £100 was withdrawn once or twice a week. But they couldn't check those either, nor demand CCTV footage of the people doing the withdrawing from the cash machine. And so on.

2) Agreed. Which is yet another advantage to a radically simplified welfare system, i.e. Citizen's Income, or what the DWP are now referring to as Universal Credits. And instead of trying to hound people into job training, civil servants could spend a bit more time on tracking down fake identities etc. Let's abandon 'conditionality' as regards family status, number of job interviews attended and have a bit more conditionality as to people proving that they are who they say they are and that they live where they say they live. Make people re-apply each year or two, whatever.

3) This is the bit that sticks in the craw - every time the Tories ever suggested modest tax cuts, Labour would immediately express that in terms of how many teachers' or nurses' jobs would be lost. But let's assume that 40,000 nurses cost £1.5 billion per annum (just under £40,000 each, seems about right); there are 400,000 nurses in the NHS, so they'd cost £15 billion per annum in total.

Ho hum. The total annual cost of the NHS is well over £100 billion, so where does the rest of the money go? The Tories, kept missing this open goal while in opposition and don't appear to be aware that it's still there now.

8 comments:

assegai mike said...

It seems obligatory that every new government has to make an early announcement about how it's going to crack down on benefit fraud and solve the problem. At each and every attempt, they fail. Although the culprits are generally from the lesser-educated classes, when it comes to benefits, they have extremely well-honed animal cunning - way too cute for the plodding Powers That Be. No doubt they'll wave a few schmucks under our noses to show excellent progress, but expect another wasteful, expensive programme with little return.

Mark Wadsworth said...

AM, the key is to keep it simple.

Admin costs and fraud/error with really simple universal benefits like Child Benefit (or the tax free personal allowance, or 'free' libraries, state education etc) are barely measurable, and net off with under-claims. And that was part of my response to the DWP consultation thingy last week.

Rich Tee said...

I used to do identity checks for people applying for stockbroking accounts.

From time to time people would send in their housing benefit or jobseeker's allowance letters as proof of their name and address. I used to think "why is somebody on benefits applying for a stockbroking account?" but we were under instructions to accept the documents.

This is a true story.

James Higham said...

"why is somebody on benefits applying for a stockbroking account?"

Because they're making more than the average wage.

Electro-Kevin said...

It's not the fraudsters that are the problem. It's those claiming legitimately.

The country is being taken over by chavs for the simple reason that it pays to be a chav.

Decent people can't afford to breed. Chavs can knock 'em out by the dozen.

Dave is a lying lefty.

Mark Wadsworth said...

TM, briliiant story, thanks for that. Were you not tempted to send copies to the DSS?

JH, not all of them.

EK, I blame the idiots who pay chavs to be chavs, and not the chavs who make hay while the sun shines.

Restricting basic benefits a bit (so that nobody starves or freezes), simplifying them and reducing marginal withdrawal rates to no more than (say) 50% will sort it all out in a twinkling.

Rich Tee said...

MW, I would certainly be compromising my employer and probably be breaching Data Protection plus it just feels wrong to get involved like that anyway.

The point is though that under Cameron's plans I might have been able to report my suspicions using a procedure that could be properly audited.

I can't go into too much detail here because I am still involved in fraud detection but I give a cautious welcome to Cameron's plans for a variety of reasons.

Mark Wadsworth said...

TM, I didn't mean for a second whether you'd have done it (on a professional level, of course you wouldn't, neither would I, not in a million years unless I knew that I myself was breaching money laundering Reg's by not doing so), I meant purely on a human/emotional level?

As a separate issue, I'm 100% against financial asset-based means testing*, so if an HB or JSA claimant has £10k or £20k (not obtained fraudulently) to spare for buying shares, then good luck to him or her.

* If it were up to me, I'd scrap tax exemption for ISAs and so on, and scrap financial asset-based means testing for welfare or Pensions Credit claimants for good measure. But OTOH I'd move towards including land/buildings based means-testing and abolish mortgage and rent subsidies (see earlier post on Shroud Waving).