A couple of Warmenists attack the theory that increased solar activity shields us from cosmic rays, which in turn reduces the amount of low-level cloud formation and hence increase average global temperatures here. To give them credit, they include this handy chart:
Now, as VFTS is at pains to point out, "correlation does not equal causation", which is true, but I think we can rule out "coincidence". We can certainly rule out the idea that heavier cloud cover causes cosmic rays (if anything, clouds might reduce the number of cosmic rays reaching the measuring stations, surely?); or that there is an even more underlying force at work that causes both.
This is one of the key arguments put forward by said Warmenists:
The number of cases of sunburn and the consumption of ice cream both increase in summer but you cannot conclude that eating ice cream causes sunburn. For this reason we set out to try to prove one way or the other whether changes in the rate at which cosmic rays fall on the Earth could significantly influence cloud cover and so provide the undiscovered effect needed in the event that computer climate models are wrong.
Correct. Sunburn does not cause ice cream consumption or vice versa, but they are both caused by sunshine/hot weather. Having observed this, we can then look at the transmission mechanisms, which are "not using enough sun-cream" and "desire to eat cold things when it's hot" respectively.
To extend the analogy, I suppose it is possible that cosmic rays and low-level cloud cover are both caused by something else entirely (in which case, what?). The Warmenists do not propose this, so we are left with the reasonable assumption that cosmic rays do encourage low-level cloud formation.
I'm not sure that the transmission mechanism is that important (although the people who awarded the 1927 Nobel Prize certainly did). For example, "not using enough sun-cream" is only part of the transmission mechanism from sunshine -> sun-burn. We'd also have to 'factor' in the desire of a lot of people to have sun-tans; the fact that it's nice to lie outside when it's hot; look things like Vitamin D and melanin levels etc etc. It might even be that being sun-burnt is the natural human condition and that only cold weather and clothing prevent this becoming chronic.
Similarly, even if you don't have a clue about molecular biology or what melanin is, you are perfectly entitled to generalise and say that "sun-shine causes sun-burn". To wit, even if the CLOUD people disprove ionization as a transmission mechanism, that doesn't mean that there isn't one. Anyways, the first comment in the Warmenist thread deserves an honourable mention:
If things happening at the same time doesn't prove anything, then how can we link global warming to greenhouse gasses without contradicting that statement?
No H&S here lads
3 hours ago
11 comments:
Well low cloud doesn't cause cosmic rays...
I think I'll keep out of this one!
(except to point out that clouds have close to zero effect on cosmic ray particles reaching the earth's surface. You have to go deep underground - or have a thick lead shield - to reach somewhere free of them.
And to remark that I'm surprised that the authors don't mention the sun's magnetic index - strength of its magnetic field- which also affects the cosmic ray density on earth)
It's only just occurred to me that what's used in sunbed parlours are Cosmetic Rays.
"If things happening at the same time doesn't prove anything, then how can we link global warming to greenhouse gasses"
I think the answer there is that the absorption of infra-red light by some bases is well understood, so there's a causal mechanism available, whereas the way cosmic rays might affect climate is disputed. That's why Svensmark's work was so hotly disputed: it provides such a causal mechanism and must therefore not be allowed to stand.
bases=gases
This argument is in danger of degenerating into a sunspots vs co2causation contest for global warming (BTW W.S.Jevons is worth looking up for a genuine "scientific" analysis of sunspots causing "commercial crises" in between his co-invention of marginal utility theory and proving that coal stocks were running out.He was ridiculed for his sunspot explanation of the trade cycle though.)
Surely there are a range of issues involved in global temperatures: the jetstream (not noticed till after ww2 in the West); urban smoke (would n't the Chinese burning coal put temperatures down?); volcanoes (even warmenists ascribe the 1809-1819 cool period that Byron goes on about to volcanoes);general weirdness and even CO2.It is a complex interaction.Quick propellor heads sort out a formula with about ten different variables.It can't be down to one factor or another.
AC!, it would appear not (see VFTS' comment).
VFTS, sure, sunspots are only an indicator of the magnetic index.
PR, yup, the knives have been out against Svensmark for years.
DBC, you say Jevons, I say Herschel. PS, That formula would need more than ten variables, but hey.
What chance that Ice Age, Mark?
JH, the chances are either a) zero or b) too high.
What are you all going on about, the science is settled.
As an aside, I remember an article in the Economist which said that ice cream sales are driven by step changes increases in temperature and soon settle back to long term average.
Herschel was a bit of an amateur,at astronomy at that,with a heavy symphony writing habit.Jevons on the other hand was a "serious economist" (you have to laugh).And I never said he discovered the truth about sunspots
(Herschel discovered infra-red while buggering around with one of his mighty telescopes using prisms as filters so as not to blind himself looking at the sun.Why he could not project them onto a sheet of paper like everybody else did is a mystery).
Herschel also discovered Uranus which must have come in handy.
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