Thanks in no small part to Martin Cassini's tireless campaigning, there's this story in today's Times:
What would happen if traffic lights were suddenly switched off? Would there be gridlock or would the queues of frustrated drivers miraculously disappear? People in London are about to find out the answer in Britain’s first test of the theory that removing lights will cure congestion.
For six months, lights at up to seven junctions in Ealing will be concealed by bags and drivers will be left to negotiate their way across by establishing eye contact with pedestrians and other motorists. Ealing Council believes that, far from improving the flow of traffic, lights cause delays and may even increase road danger...
Ealing found evidence to support its theory when the lights failed one day at a busy junction and traffic flowed better than before... David Millican, a Conservative councillor and Ealing’s Cabinet member for transport, said... that the council was also considering having all lights flash at amber late at night, as in some European countries*, signalling to drivers that they could proceed with caution... However, unlike switching off lights, these trials would have to be approved by the Department for Transport**, which is very slow to accept changes to traffic rules.
Sure, some grumpies will say that this is pro-motorist but anti-pedestrian, but..
a) what about bus-users? Do they belong to the favoured 'non-car user' class or to the despised 'would-benefit-from-not-being-stuck-at-traffic-lights' class?
b) aren't car-drivers also pedestrians, at least some of the time?
c) turning 'em off tends to benefits pedestrians as well, in my limited experience.
* I used to live in an area in Germany where they turned 'em off in the evening and at weekends, that was what they did and it just wasn't an issue. See also Lilley's Option
** What sort of a f***nut country do we live in, where you don't need approval to turn 'em off or dismantle 'em, but you do need approval for 'flashing amber'? Is there any part of 'flashing amber' that is not perfectly clear?
Holy Smoke
6 hours ago
13 comments:
They used to have 'peak hour signals' in England, traffic lights that were only switched on during the rush hour. I don't know if they still exist somewhere.
Is there any part of 'flashing amber' that is not perfectly clear?Apparently there is, since most drivers seem to ignors them.
Whereas the TPA in an act of unfocused stupidity are campaigning to stop the trial of this in Sloane Square.
Daft.
AS a highway engineer in a pevious life I advocated this action - and got laughed at. But it is entirely in accord with free market theories. People left to sort things out always do. A culture of behaviour develops and drivers and walkers sort it out. It has also been shown that doing this makes things safer as everyone takes more care. Quelle bloody surprise. Take away the nannying and folk start to take responsibility. It's all so bloody obvious isn't it?
Cingram-we still have some of those "peak hour" traffic lights up here in Sconnie Botland.
During a visit to Johannesburg last year they had rolling "brown-outs" (because they don't/can't produce enough electricity) and every day whole sectors of the city lose power, including the traffic lights. I once set off on a 25 minute journey and arrived 4 hours later. It is just chaos. And thats when they know it's going to happen.
I'll reserve judgment for now. It may or may not work here.
wv = fooke. Exactly.
CI, CR, I think it is far more relevant to look at what happens in Ealing when there is a 'brown out'; or at what happens in Germany when they have flashing amber in the evenings; or at peak hour traffic lights in Scotland than is to look at what may or may not happen in South Africa.
True, true. And like you I also lived in Germany. The flashing ambers work perfectly well. Then again, attitudes to driving are markedly different there. Huge traffic queues for instance, and the zipper method (every car lets in one car so that traffic is moving albeit slowly) and I found out that it isn't courtesy based. Its the law.
Now you mention it, I seem to remember the zipper system works ok in Jersey, too. But over here in Spain, an amber light, flashing or otherwise, means green to most drivers (and cyclists and motorcyclists ignore even the red ones much of the time). So yes, I think a lot would depend on attitudes.
This all relies on civilisation. If I have a huge lorry and am in a hurry and have had a drink or two - will I be polite?
what do you think.
And if there is a minor collision will you want a punch up?
CI, the Spaniards and French don't seem to care, but neither do they care about their Hallowed Paintwork. What keeps English & German drivers relatively civilised is the obsession with keeping their Hallowed Paintwork showroom-fresh.
M,
1. Who said anything about legalising drink driving?
2. Agreed, five out of six car or lorry drivers are inconsiderate buggers, but that doesn't matter. As long as one in six drivers is prepared to give way to the other stream, then the system works.
The Dutch have tested this along with 'shared space' areas. At a junction you remove all the traffic management gubbins, bloke pave the area so that it all looks the same - road and footway alike - and put up some signs telling eevryone what's been done, and guess hat it works.
I don't agree that 5 out of every 6 drivers are selfish buggers. They have been made that way by the nannying. If the whole was turned on its head with minimum traffic management people would learn to manage it themselves. I am absoutely sure a culture of cooperation would develop. In fcat when I learned to drive in the late '60's in London the level of courtesey and co-operation was excellent. I was applalled when I moved to Suffolk at just how inconsiderate local drivers were. Since I learned London has degenerated, in direct correlation wiht the increase in rules.
In re the Latins, they do seem to have a totally different attitude. Maybe that's cultural or ethnic. Who knows. But there does seem to be a tendency to ignore rules in general. Maybe that's because they have a history of bad rulers?
Down in these yeeeeear parts on less busy roads the robots get switched to flashing red late at night and from Saturday lunchtime to Monday morning. This turns the junction into a four way stop street and seems to work pretty well.
With these flashing ambers work perfectly well - who has measured the ground? Politicians, police, morticians?
Here in Australia there are enough lethal accidents on straight open roads but this must be down to the trees that get involved as the drivers are also reasonable.
Way back in the late seventies, the huge rush hour tailbacks at a traffic light controlled intersection to the south of Nottingham (Clifton Blvd / Derby Road) was always the top item on the local radio traffic reports.
Eventually, it was decided to proceed with a long planned but expensive south/north underpass with an overhead traffic island at existing road level - you can view the result on Google Maps (A6514 / A52).
Okay, this is where it gets interesting... as the bulldozers moved in, the traffic lights were removed and £50 of second-hand tires were placed to form a temporary island. Add some hand-painted white lines and presto! Just like magic, the traffic flowed freely, waiting was massively reduced and said junction hardly featured on the morning traffic reports.
In the thirty years since, I've yet to witness a single example of where traffic lights have made a junction better, quite the reverse.
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