Sunday, 17 January 2021

Excellent work by Fairer Share

From The Sun:

RISHI Sunak is facing calls to scrap council tax and stamp duty. Households would pay a single property levy under the plan backed by nearly 100,000 people.

The change would benefit residents in the Chancellor’s Richmond, North Yorks, constituency by £650 a year, research by WPI Economics found. Charity Fairer Share, which came up with the plan, said one in four adults regularly borrowed to pay council tax...

The article is light on detail even though the suggestion is very simple. Unsually for The Sun, it is not totally negative. Inevitably, most of the comments are. For more details go to Fairer Share. Which is a community interest company and not a charity AFAIAA.


KJP said...

Council tax and stamp duty are really quite different things. A pays £1,000 in council tax and moves to a similar house elsewhere where he also pays £1,000 in council tax but he also has to pay a tax just for moving. So that is wrong.

All these sorts of changes are said to be fiscally neutral and they may be overall. But if 3 out of 4 people pay less then then the fourth has to pay more. And their increased payment has to make up for 3 people paying less.

They propose a flat rate on the value of the property so it is not an LVT.
The Bedroom Tax is not really a property tax but an adjustment to HB.
Rents will rise to offset the costs to landlords; renters will be no better off.
How will LA’s pay for services if payment of the tax is deferred?
Annual automated valuations: expect thousands of appeals – to be dealt with manually and expensively.

Mark Wadsworth said...

KJP, oh come on, you're wasting everybody's time here.

I - and most other people - know what Council Tax and SDLT are, thank you very much. They are different and bad, but bad for opposite reasons. Add them together to make a PPT and they are very good.

"But if 3 out of 4 people pay less then then the fourth has to pay more."

Correct. But not much more, because although the fourth person might pay £1,000 more on an annual basis, the fourth person won't be paying £20,000 SDLT when they move every 20 years on average.

PPT is close to LVT, not as good, but good enough.

Yes, Bedroom Tax is an HB adjustment (which I happen to agree with).

Only landlords who are currently charging less than market rent can hike rents, surely you know that by now?

"How will LA’s pay for services if payment of the tax is deferred?"

Come on man, surely you know that 80% of the cost of 'local services' is paid out of general taxation by central government?

"Annual automated valuations: expect thousands of appeals – to be dealt with manually and expensively."

They introduced a PPT in 2005 Northern Ireland based on selling prices as at 1.1.2005. We have far more and better data than 16 years ago. Automatic valuations are a doddle.

Were there 'thousands of appeals' in NI? Nope. Did you even check?

As to appeals, if all homes are deliberately under-valued then nobody has anything to appeal against. Have you considered that?

mombers said...

@KJP so landlords have passed on rises in interest rates over time? Simple evidence that shows that landlords will not be able to pass one the cost.
Valuations - how does this work in the USA, South Africa, Canada, etc? Once bedded in it's a doddle. Public records help a great deal too, in the US and South Africa you can see the assessment on every entry in the land registry.

We already do valuations for ""money launderers"" anonymously owned residential property. A surprisingly large number of these have remained anonymous, partly to avoid disclosing that a civil servant in the developing world somehow owns a multimillion pound home, but also because it's worth it to keep the stamp duty, CGT and IHT exemption that these corporate structures allow

mombers said...

Strikethrough not allowed in comments... money launderers meant to be crossed out above

Mark Wadsworth said...

M, they are chipping away at those exemptions. As a catch-all, there is the Mansion Tax-Lite called ATED. HMRC were amazed that the receipts from this were many times what they expected. So very little avoidance, rich people just pay it to keep their anonymity.

As to valuations, all I'm saying is "Northern Ireland did it fifteen years ago, and it will be much easier today. Zoopla and Rightmove can do an automated assessment within seconds. It might not be accurate in absolute terms, but it's accurate enough in relative terms, and that is all that matters."

Bayard said...

Nice to see the Army of Surveyor getting a mention.