Mark Wadsworth: Fascinating

Monday 17 December 2018

Petition mapped

A map of the votes for the 'Leave on WTO terms' on 29/03/2019

17 comments:

James Higham said...: Up to 178K now. Good.; 17 December 2018 at 11:50
Mark Wadsworth said...: That seems to match with leave/remain split in original referendum.; 17 December 2018 at 11:51
Shiney said...: Mark

Should YPP be rebranded as the "Libertarian-Leave-the-EU-Fair Taxation for-All" Party

Trouble is LLEUFTA sounds like a place in Wales....; 17 December 2018 at 12:07
Mark Wadsworth said...: Sh, somebody else suggested "the fair tax party". It does have some merit.; 17 December 2018 at 15:10
MikeW said...: Shiney,MW

Interesting, if the two 'old' main parties we support (in the hope/ longshot) they adopt Georgist/ G Lite policies fragment, then in a world of the 'invented' new Poularist parties, the membership of the YPP may need to crank up their 'marketing'. I assume folks here are going over these ideas. But what strikes me is, personally, I never really took the strategy of being 'consumed' by a larger party (to get you out of the way model) seriously, as recently as just two years ago, but now!; 17 December 2018 at 17:42
Shiney said...: @Mike @mark @everyoneelse

Its now or never - I really believe it is.; 17 December 2018 at 18:27
Bayard said...: What this map says to me is that the only bit of the UK that matters, i.e. London, is not in favour, so the country is not in favour. Who cares what the hicks think?; 17 December 2018 at 21:04
ThomasBHall said...: @Shiney- What do you propose?
I agree that if there is any time for a new party to make headway, then it surely must be now (or soon). It needs clarity of message (YPP has used "lower house prices and higher income" in the past)- but on the EU- even though I am fully in favour of leave, I'm just not sure a position is required or helpful for a georgist party. I am very open to persuasion, but even in our own modest membership we have a large split on this topic. I myself see it possible to legislate for Georgist (lite at minimum) policies within or outside the EU, so am currently happy for YPP to remain outside the ring.
I suppose we could go for a "The real Brexit opportunity" type angle: Getting out means we can create a Georgist utopia ;) although that requires we persuade people not one but two things- the Georgist utopia is the answer, and Brexit the best shot at getting there. I have trouble pursuading people just one...
Anyway- views welcome.; 18 December 2018 at 10:43
Shiney said...: @TBH

My attraction to LVT/Georgism is that it is a libertarian position.

Thus I'm more interested in the 'Libertarian' and 'Fair-Taxation-for-All' bits of LLEUFTA than the 'Leave the EU' bit.

Maybe the appeal to the Leavers of the 'left' is based on the Georgist Utopia argument and the Leavers on the 'right' based on the lower 'personal' taxation argument.

Either way you can't get rid of VAT while we're in the EU.; 18 December 2018 at 12:19
Physiocrat said...: @Bayard

London is 'the only bit of the country that matters' because it sucks up wealth created in the rest of the country, through the tax and financial systems. The rest of the country is paying economic rent to London.

The EU's policy making mechanism seems to be jinxed. You couldn't think of a worse tax than VAT. It fails all for of the tests set out in the Canons of Taxation. Add on CAP, the Single Market's tariff wall and the Euro, and you have to wonder where they got these rotten ideas from? Not just one bad policy, but four. That is an achievement, you have to admit.; 18 December 2018 at 21:48
Physiocrat said...: Just a reminder - I hope everyone is stocking up with supplies of baked beans, condensed milk, corned beef, cream crackers and bottled water.; 18 December 2018 at 21:58
Piotr Wasik said...: "YPP - lower house prices and higher income" - I like it as a tagline, I will try. Beginning with LVT talk is a non-starter as I observed.....; 19 December 2018 at 11:12
Bayard said...: "You couldn't think of a worse tax than VAT."

It depends on your viewpoint. From the tax gatherer's point of view, it is a good tax, because it makes the people do all the work of collecting it.

The best thing to stock up on is porridge. You can live on porridge. Also spuds.; 20 December 2018 at 20:13
Steven_L said...: "Who cares what the hicks think?"

Nobody did until they elected Donald Trump now 'they' are all seething too.; 21 December 2018 at 02:53
Shiney said...: @B

"It depends on your viewpoint. From the tax gatherer's point of view, it is a good tax, because it makes the people do all the work of collecting it."

Nope. @P is right - VAT is a shit tax especially from the POV of 'tax take' vs effort. Massive evasion and fraud = low collection rates plus high admin costs for both govt AND business.

TPTBs answer to fix it is to abolish cash rather than get rid of the tax itself.; 21 December 2018 at 08:09
Bayard said...: SL, good point.; 21 December 2018 at 08:21
Mark Wadsworth said...: I'm enjoying this thread. A lot of comments for such a short post.; 21 December 2018 at 13:24

Monday 17 December 2018

Fascinating

17 comments:

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