Just to recap, based on what it actually says on the signs over the shops:
Some shops don't have an "s" at the end of their name
TESCO (usually spelled in capitals as it's an acronym). We say "Aldi" or "Lidl" and not "Aldi's" or Lidl's", so why do so many people say "Tesco's"?
W H Smith
Marks & Spencer
John Lewis
Fortnum & Mason
The following have an "s" and an apostrophe
Sainsbury's (which is the trading name of the group headed by J Sainsbury plc)
Bloomingdale's
Waterstone's
Both of these methods are corrrect, I suppose. Either no "s" at all (which is a bit old-fashioned) or an apostrophe and then an "s" (which is a bit common).
The following have an "s" but no apostrophe
Morrisons
Woolworths (to the extent it still exists)
Boots (founded by a chap called Jesse Boot)
Debenhams
Macy*s seems to have a star instead of an apostrophe
Selfridges
Harrods
Robert Dyas
Harvey Nichols
All of the ones on this list would appear to be missing an apostrophe, apart from Robert Dyas, which was his real name, and Harvey Nichols, because one of the founding partners was called Nichols.
Saturday, 2 July 2011
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14 comments:
I'd say that all the examples you give that aren't possessives are generally referred to as possessives. I suppose that enough companies at he start of such things were known by the name of the founders for the common perception to be that company names always end in 's (apart from railway companies, whose names were always geographically based).
Misplaced apostrophies drive me to distraction, but I would note:
Well used acronyms are correctly treated as names in both common use and in english useage. Tesco (the word) is used as a supplier's name on the goods.
One would compare John's roses with Fred's roses at the village show. So surely comparing Lidl's coffee with Tesco's coffee also means 'that supplied by'.
Much spoken english is shorthand, you might visit TESCO (the place shouldn't have a possessive) or you might visit Tesco's (the shop belonging to the Tesco chain - is that not a correct possessive?)
Maybe most people would not understand the 's makes a subtle distinction in meaning but I think it does. You may disagree.
You also have to figure that some shops should rightly have a 's but drop it for clarity (I think Boots' should) while some firms and addresses predate the use of the 's.
"Where can I buy a condom?"
"Have you tried Boots?"
"Yes but it comes out the lace-holes."
Morrisons is another without the '.
Old Ken probably thought they were too expensive to add to the signs.
This topic always reminds me of an old colleague who saw a sign on a fruit stall advertising "ORNAGE'S". He didn't buy any, but he bought the sign.
RR, I knew I'd forgotten one, I have included.
There's a serious British-class flavour to the list.
Half of the wrong-punctuation places are working-class shops. To paraphrase Tracy Ullman as air hostess "in working class, we'll be serving tea of steak and kidney pie and a pudding of jam roly-poly": Morrisons, Boots, Robert Dyas.
All of the correct-punctuation shops are middle-class shops (pace Ullman, "in middle class we'll be serving dinner of boeuf bourgignon, sun-dried tomatoes and a dessert of raspberry flan"): Sainsbury's, Waterstone's, WH Smith, M&S, John Lewis.
And the rest of the wrong-punctuation shops are upper-class shops (pace Ullman, "in upper class, we'll be serving supper ofsteak and kidney pie and a pudding of jam roly-poly"): Horrids Selfridges, Harvey Nichols.
B, that's a sort of explanation but doesn't explain why some retail chains deliberately get it wrong.
W42, good summary. I can forgive people for saying things like "Tesco's" for the reasons you give (and I occasionally lapse and say it myself) but what rankles is shops which get it wrong deliberately (third list).
D, surely nobody buys "a condom", you'd buy three or something?
FTB "ORNAGE"S"??
JB, interesting theory, but I think you're reading too much into it. Debenhams and Boots (both objectively 'wrong') are firmly mid-market, surely? Selfridges is slightly posher than John Lewis but not by miles or anything.
And Dyas and Harvey Nichols are entirely innocent in all this because "Dyas" and "Nichols" were founder or co-founder respectively.
Everybody round here says Lidl's ,Aldi's, Marks and Spencer's etc;being speech you can't tell whether there's an apostrophe(Duh!).
I can't imagine how anybody would ever have to write the names
and get into vexatious punctuation tangles.
"D, surely nobody buys "a condom", you'd buy three or something?"
Boyhood jokes are not noted for their sophistication.
DBC, I've heard people say "Marks and Spencer's" but I've never heard people say "Lidl's" or "ALDI's". But there again, I've never met anybody who mentioned "Lidl" or "ALDI" either. Do people say "ASDA's" or "ASDA"?
Amusingly. ASDA and ALDI are both acronyms but Lidl is an actual name.
D, yes they are, what about the one that ends "They're not making a fucking canoe out of me"? That one still makes me smile three decades after first hearing it.
Errr, would you settle for Robert Dyas' shop? :-)
FT, Robert Dyas decided to call his shops "Robert Dyas". You can't fault him for simplicity or grammar.
You'd be surprised at just how many people from the Rochdale / northern Greater Manchester / east Lancashire area refer to Aldi and Lidl by "Aldi's" and "Lidl's" and "Asda's". It's just a lazy habit that they've really got into.
Though, thankfully, I have not got into the habit of saying Tesco's.
Although our Sainsbury's used to be a Somerfield so I often call it Scumbury's as Somerfield often was called Scummerfield because it was quite scummy inside.
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