Monday 2 May 2011

Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (123)

The final counter-argument in the article at Appraiser10.com is this:

Loss of Asset Value

Land value is the discounted present value of expected future after-tax rents; so LVT, by increasing the taxation of those rents, would reduce the value of all real estate owners' holdings (1). A rapid reduction of real estate values could have profoundly negative effects on banks and other financial institutions whose asset portfolios are dominated by real estate mortgage debt, and could thus threaten the soundness of the whole financial system.(2)

Rapid introduction of LVT must therefore be considered a somewhat irresponsible approach, and most LVT advocates consequently favor a long phase-in process lasting at least a decade, and potentially much longer. (3)

If land's value were reduced to zero or near zero by recovering effectively all its rent, as many LVT advocates propose, total privately held asset value could decline by as much as 1/4 or even more, a massive reduction of private citizens' wealth. (4)


1) Fair summary.

2) No it wouldn't - that's just what They want us to think. On the basis of official statistics, my magic fag packet says that if house prices fell by a quarter and half of those in nequity lost their jobs, defaulted, went bankrupt and had their houses repossessed and sold at the new lower value, then rather surprisingly, the loss to UK banks would only be one or two per cent of their total net assets.

And as I explained in my previous post, actual businesses would be paying £300 billion less in tax each year, so there'd be plenty of money sloshing around for them to be able to meet their existing mortgage or rental commitments.

3) Five years seems about right to me. Although nobody likes transitions, people can adjust to things quite quickly, and there's no point dragging out the transition longer than necessary. Maybe a quarter of households would decide to trade down, all that means is that turnover in the housing market would go back up to 2006-07 levels for a few years and then we are sorted.

4) People keep talking about land as an 'asset' without realising that it is only an asset to one party (the owner) because it is a corresponding liability on somebody else (a tenant or future purchaser). It is not the land which generates the income to pay the rent or mortgage, it is the person living there and working nearby, or a business trading from those premises. And those people also have a massive future income tax liability, so by merging income tax and a large chunk of rents/mortgage payments into LVT, their overall lifetime net income (after tax + rent/mortgage bill) would go up considerably (especially if you include the boost to the economy from scrapping income tax).

In any event, it is land price bubbles which trigger 'financial crises' which is why we keep having recessions, so low buying/selling prices are inherently A Good Thing. Remember: high house prices make us poorer, not richer!

15 comments:

Span Ows said...

Today's a good day to bury various posts about LVT

;-)

Mark Wadsworth said...

So, I'm off work so I can sort out every point in that article. Trouble is, most other people are off work as well so nobody will read them :-(

Tim Almond said...

I reckon you could replace the losses from "computer science" LVT by not spending on "regional support" bollocks.

Think about it... rather than spending money on worthless schemes to get economic growth in places like Sunderland, Hull, Liverpool or mid-Wales*, tell software developers that they can go there and basically pay zero in tax (and with CI, government will pay them).

You'd quickly see startup development companies moving there rather than being in the M4 corridor. A software development company might create real jobs (like hiring junior programmers) because it was so cheap (especially as they wouldn't have people not wanting to work because of minimum wage + benefits). Even if they didn't, they'd keep the local coffee shop and pizza delivery company in business.

*that said, wild horses couldn't drag me to mid-Wales

Lola said...

RE last paragraph. Strictly speaking it's a combination of unsound money and skewed taxation that drives land price bubbles.

Mark Wadsworth said...

JT, exactly. LVT saves us all the bother with possibly well-intentioned but expensive and ineffective regional subsidy schemes.

L, agreed on taxation, but I could just as well argue that land price bubbles create unsound money - the two just go hand in hand.

Derek said...

Hmmm, the appraiser10.com posting is actually a ripoff of an ancient version of the Wikipedia Land Value Tax article. The current version is much better. And they haven't linked back to the current version, or provided a list of all the authors, as they are obliged to by the terms of the GNU licence. Naughty, naughty. As a contributor to that article, that's MY copyright they're infringing.

Mark Wadsworth said...

D, it was definitely nicked from somewhere, as Appraisers10 is an American site, the article was distinctly English and some of the links didn't work.

I just Google "arguments against LVT" every now and then and see what the cat drags in.

chefdave said...

"Land value is the discounted present value of expected future after-tax rents"

I keep coming across this "discounted present value" phrase but I'm not entirely sure what it means.

How does it differ from the capitalisation of land rents?

Mark Wadsworth said...

CD, don't worry about it, 'discounted present value' (or just 'net present value') means exactly the same as the 'capitalised value'.

Much the same as 'site only location value' means much the same as 'the value of land and buildings minus the cost/value of the bricks and mortar'.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure we could make a wiki of all these...

Neil Harding said...

Mark, I notice you were on page 22 of the Guardian today being quoted about LVT.

Mark Wadsworth said...

F, those killer arguments just keep on coming. Over at HPC, Flashman insists that LVT would kill off too many businesses, despite the fact that replacing all existing taxes with LVT would amount to an 80% cut in taxes on business.

NH, yup, altho' credit for that must go to Economic Voice, who happen to be higher up the Google rankings than I am, and who kindly let me write an article about LVT.

chefdave said...

Well the numpties over HPC have got hold of that article and are tearing it to bits, all the usual arguments are being trotted out;

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=163077&st=0

Mark Wadsworth said...

CD, I don't think much of the HPC forum.

chefdave said...

It's a hotbed of homeownerism and faux-libertarianism. They may as well change the site name to www.landlordcheerleader.com and have done with it.

My friend was banned for critiquing their stupid opinions with Georgist analysis, so I don't bother there anymore either.