Thursday, 11 November 2010

Veiled Threats Of The Week

From The Daily Telegraph:

Euroscepticism leads to war and a rising tide of nationalism is the European Union's "biggest enemy", Herman Van Rompuy, the president of Europe has told a Berlin audience. "In every member state, there are people who believe their country can survive alone in the globalised world. It is more than an illusion: it is a lie."

... a spokesman for Mr Van Rompuy, stressed that he was not talking about Mr Cameron's brand of Euroscepticism but about those people who want to leave the EU. "It is nothing to do with what Mr Cameron thinks. It is a point that Britain or other countries are not able to survive on their own. I am sure Mr Cameron would agree with that," he said...

Mr Van Rompuy and other senior EU officials are concerned about the spread of populist Eurosceptic groups, such as Ukip, beyond Britain to Germany and the Netherlands. The former Belgian Prime Minister, who was appointed as President of the EU Council a year ago, sees the new nationalism as being based on fear.


So who's the scaredy cat here? The EUrocrats or humble 'populists' like UKIP?

27 comments:

ukipwebmaster said...

We need those Pan-European UKIP parties after all then.

Mark Wadsworth said...

UWM, I personally don't believe in pan-European parties.

It might be that the leading anti-EU party in another country is socialist, orin the case of Poland, xenophobic and homophobic. I would happily co-operate with such people all the way on grinding down the EUphiles, but no further than that, no alliance, nothing

Gawain Towler said...

Informal alliances can work, and do to an extent.
But there is no need to join up witth the unsalubrious thee are plenty of perfectly decent normal people who agree with us anough to find common cause.
I agree with your point about fear though.
You can feel it stalking the Jutus Lupsius and Berlyamont buildings. They are frightenmed of the poeple.

Good thing too really, they should be.

Onus Probandy said...

"It is a point that Britain or other countries are not able to survive on their own. I am sure Mr Cameron would agree with that"

The arrogance is incredible. Exactly what vital facility is the EU providing, such that its removal would mean Britain wouldn't "survive"?

James Higham said...

I'm not a UKIP member but I ask the question - why is UKIP the only party to speak up in defence of our nation, especially on this project to put EU plaques on war memorials to remind us of our EU roots, costing our taxpayers £640 000 over six years?

Mark Wadsworth said...

GT, I defer to your inside knowledge of these matters. I'm just guessing from the outside.

OP, exactly. Norway? Switzerland? Israel?

JH, why? You have to ask?

Bill Quango MP said...

How would the UK survive? Without too much bother I should think.
Are we sure he wasn't talking about Romania or Greece?

Lola said...

Mr Van Rompuy = neo fascist fuckwit.

Lola said...

"It is nothing to do with what Mr Cameron thinks. It is a point that Britain or other countries are not able to survive on their own. I am sure Mr Cameron would agree with that," he said... OK sunshine put your money where your mouth is. We'll leave you to it and get on and go our own way and I bet you the EU budget to a Golden Sovereign that we'll be just fine.

Wanker.

Mark Wadsworth said...

BQ, Rumpy referred specifically to 'Britain', not R or B, as Lola pointed out for you.

So that makes Rumpy a double neo-fascist wanker with knobs on, because there is no such place as 'Britain'. There is an island called 'Great Britain' but that is just a geographical description and not a country. It's just as irritating as him saying 'Europe' when he means 'EU' and so on.

Umbongo said...

MW

"Rumpy referred specifically to 'Britain'"

But in the eyes of the EU the area contiguous with the nation-state of the UK* is simply a geographic expression. The move to governing the EU through newly designated administrative areas is described in this rather ancient blog. You can't (and you don't) say we haven't been warned.

*or the nations of England & Wales and Scotland.

Roue le Jour said...

I strongly suspect that the whole "ever closer union" twaddle is based on the suspension of disbelief, and the first country to wake up and say "bugger this for a game of soldiers, we're out" will bring the whole thing down.

I also suspect the EU is aware of this, and if the UK looked to be at serious about leaving the EU would panic and start offering concessions.

Of course, as comrade Cameron and his fellow deputies think the irredeemably socialist EU is the best thing since the United Soviet Socialist Republics, that isn't going to happen.

Mark Wadsworth said...

RLJ: "... the EU would panic and start offering concessions."

That's what terrifies me. Once I'm in charge and send Foreign Minister Umbongo over there to tell them to f*** off, I'm worried that he'll come back with some deal that is too splendid to refuse - or which the great British electorate will want us to accept - like what they offered Ireland after the 'no' referendum.

On the topic of Ireland, I wonder who is deeper in the debt shite - Ireland, which is now a subsidiary of France and Germany, or Iceland who merrily told the world's savers and bondholders that they could whistle for it.

Lola said...

RlJ "bugger this for a game of soldiers, we're out" I thought that the fear of us playing soldiers again is just what von rumpy is scared of. Which is a bit thick since we've turned up twice in the last 100 years and rescued them from that very problem. And may I just point out, that was done pretty well voluntarily because we believe that all nation states have the absolute right of self determination, and at not inconsiderable cost in both blood and treasure to ourselves, and our commonwealth.

Roue le Jour said...

Lola, the irony, or course, is that in saving Europe from another war, the EU is going to destroy it economically instead.

Umbongo said...

MW

I'm not against coming to a deal with the EU: but part of that deal must be us leaving. We could negotiate a very cosy separation agreement and, of course, the referendum would be Yes or No on the basis of that f*** off and deal agreement not on what the EU might offer if we stayed - and then screwing us as per usual. Don't worry MW I won't go native. As far as I'm concerned - and for the first time since 1914 - the role of the Foreign Office is to represent the interests of the UK to the outside world, not the reverse.

Actually I agree with RlJ: the first serious (threat of) defection of a major part of the EU would probably bring the whole lot down. If the EU tried to bribe us to stay in, other major players would immediately demand similar terms which the EU just could not meet.

Lola said...

Um/RlJ - That's why they wanted us in in the first place. Can't really have afree independent and prosperous nation with low taxes just on the doorstep of your unfree high taxed bureaucratic superstate can you? All they've done is to move the Berlin Wall a few hunderd miles West. Hitler's Atlantic Wall has come to pass. Wankers.

Scott Wright said...

What a fooking prick Mr. Rumpy Pumpy is.

Britain couldn't survive without the EU? A bunch of fucking other European countries are doing just fine, does Norway not in fact have a GDP per capita that is double the strongest individual EU nations?

Quiet Guy said...

I'm not into UKIP politics but the talk of war reminded me of watching "An Iron Fist has come down on Europe - Nigel Farage" a while ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyNnlyIVjhU

At 02:25 Farage declared: "The plan was flawed and their fanciful monetary scheme colllapsed but still the new bosses wouldn't listen to the people. No they made life tougher and tougher. They put tens of milions into poverty. They denied people a say and in the end those people had to restort to violence to get back their nation states and their democracy and the moral of the story is they [EU parliment] had learnt nothing from history. Members of the European Parliment, before you give this commision power, remember remember that 60 years ago an iron curtain came down on Europe. Now, with this commission, there is an economic iron fist coming down and it is being felt in Greece."

Today, Ireland would surely join Greece. Naturally, the EU Parliment gave Farage a rough ride for talking about violence but now Rumpy is polishing his knuckledusters. Nice.

Electro-Kevin said...

The worry is not what Mr Rompuy thinks but that he and his ilk are stopping others having their say.

Bayard said...

Our politicians are power junkies, and now we no longer have an empire and can no longer grow our own, we are dependent on our dealers, the US and the EU, to keep us supplied with the drug. That is why we won't be leaving the EU or ending the "Special Relationship" any time soon.

Mark Wadsworth said...

B, I'm glad you mentioned the "Special Relationship".

A standard EU-phile riposte is "Oh, so you just want the UK to become the 51st state of the USA?" as if there were a stark choice between the two and no middle ground or alternative.

To which the answer is: "No of course not, the USA is not much better than the EU in many respects, and I don't want the UK to be the 51st state of the USA any more than the 27th region* of the EU"

* OK, in order of joining, we were 7th= with Ireland and Denmark, and while we're on the topic of Denmark. let's not forget that Greenland left the EEC (as was) in 1985.

Bayard said...

"A standard EU-phile riposte is "Oh, so you just want the UK to become the 51st state of the USA?"

There is that danger: cut off one source of supply and you become all the more dependent on the other.

Mark Wadsworth said...

B: "There is that danger..."

That's why we have Umbongo as Foreign Secretary. If he's capable of resisting the EU's allure, no doubt he'll be more than capable of telling the USA (which is smaller than the EU/Europe in terms of economy or population, and certainly in terms of trade links with the UK) that we aren't going to be their poodle any more either.

Roue le Jour said...

Under Elizabeth I our nation played off two great suitors against each other, ending up in bed with neither of them, to the nation's great advantage.

Under Elizabeth II our nation is the whore of two great powers from which we derive no advantage whatsoever.

Lola said...

MW. Umbongo won't go native. There'll be other cabinet members standing behind him with an electric cattle prod, just in case.......

Umbongo said...

Lola

It's not me you should worry about, it's the bastards who negotiate and apply the small print. That's why we must leave. Any plus-points in a deal which keeps us in will be negotiated away by our "faithful servants".

BTW, in the early part of the Iraq adventure, didn't Bush offer Blair an entree into the NAFTA which "our existing commitments to our European partners" prevented Blair from accepting - or even considering?