tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post9133488649518686055..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (322)Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-47516775364851415362014-04-08T18:38:28.562+01:002014-04-08T18:38:28.562+01:00@ M, I've taken out the bit about Business Rat...@ M, I've taken out the bit about Business Rates, let's pretend that "business" and "household" are two separate worlds and just look at the latter.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-23683605699898069222014-04-08T18:01:26.161+01:002014-04-08T18:01:26.161+01:00Now we are on the same page. Yes, it's probabl...Now we are on the same page. Yes, it's probably going to be a slightly higher fixed cost per property if more frequent revaluation, maybe 50 quid per property for revaluation (wasn't that the estimated cost of CT revaluation?), and a further 20-30 for collection and admin when you scale up from NI, but if you are collecting 10-15K per property, which are LVT figures, then you are below the 1% treshold.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-24781303847106994482014-04-08T17:38:11.909+01:002014-04-08T17:38:11.909+01:00Kj, well spotted.
I re-read the LPS annual repor...Kj, well spotted. <br /><br />I re-read the LPS annual report and net operating costs are £36 million.<br /><br />LPS other main job is running the land registry, and it spends £25 million on that as a separate exercise, and it gets £25 million in registration and search fees each year, so that breaks even (as it should do).<br /><br />So assuming everything else relates to the valuation/collection side that's about 3.5% of tax due, or £40 per home per year.<br /><br />But that £40 per home per year is fixed, it would still be £40 a year if the tax were five times as much.<br /><br />And the compliance costs for the taxpayer are zero, you just pay what they ask for.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-51344112036067395522014-04-08T17:22:13.924+01:002014-04-08T17:22:13.924+01:00MW: I'm talking running costs only, ignore arr...MW: I'm talking running costs only, ignore arrears. You say they (running costs) are 60m, the report says so too, and bugger me if 60m isn't 6% of 1 bn.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-19497199077388002112014-04-08T17:07:13.417+01:002014-04-08T17:07:13.417+01:00@ Mombers, Business Rates are not anti-business in...@ Mombers, Business Rates are not anti-business in themselves (the nearest thing we have to LVT), but they are incentive for land to be used for housing instead of for business; for buildings to be left derelict not used; and for buildings not to be improved.<br /> <br />Or I could delete that bit, if you think? I was in two minds about it.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-62441219579628623102014-04-08T17:05:41.917+01:002014-04-08T17:05:41.917+01:00Kj, no, £53 million was not new arrears all arisin...Kj, no, £53 million was not new arrears all arising in one year, that was accumulated arrears from several years which were finally written off as irrecoverable. <br /><br />New arrears each year seems to be about £33 billion - see workings in the post.<br /><br />NI Domestic Rates suffers the design flaw that it is legally payable by occupant and not the owner, so if tenant moves out without paying, it is difficult to collect.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-69809772522885395462014-04-08T16:52:29.839+01:002014-04-08T16:52:29.839+01:00But 60 million is 6% out of 1 bn still isn't i...But 60 million is 6% out of 1 bn still isn't it? :)Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-54539526216302060452014-04-08T16:42:12.880+01:002014-04-08T16:42:12.880+01:00Kj, no, I've clarified the post a bit.
Actual...Kj, no, I've clarified the post a bit.<br /><br />Actual irreducible running costs = 0.6% (pretty good)<br /><br />Annual write offs appear to be 3%, which is not brilliant but not that bad compared to other taxes.<br /><br />Also - amount undeclared and evaded = precisely zero, which is much better than other taxes.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-49073869730312327792014-04-08T13:51:36.598+01:002014-04-08T13:51:36.598+01:00The northern irish rates are a stroke of genious i...The northern irish rates are a stroke of genious in it's simplicity, barring a few minor issues. One thing though, you wrote about it <a href="http://markwadsworth.blogspot.no/2013/01/rates-debt-in-northern-ireland-doubles.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and wrote that they have running costs at 0,6% of collected revenues. The correct percentage is actually 6% (60 mn out of 1 bn). That's quite on the high-side. Why? They've only done a revaluation back in 2005.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-56099572994178243352014-04-08T13:42:20.179+01:002014-04-08T13:42:20.179+01:00Norway mombers.Norway mombers.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-54561173770528125202014-04-08T13:16:42.494+01:002014-04-08T13:16:42.494+01:00@KJ which country do you live in?
@MW why are Bus...@KJ which country do you live in?<br /><br />@MW why are Business Rates anti-business?mombershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650866436764567516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-56651931088654020712014-04-08T10:06:27.995+01:002014-04-08T10:06:27.995+01:00As always, bravo.
I was thinking about it, how sim...As always, bravo.<br />I was thinking about it, how simplie it is to do this with all the taxes people nag about and hate, like stamp duty and iht, and apply it to land values as a percentage of selling prices, and show people how little it would be, to sweeten the deal of sorts, since the immediate high figures in those taxes should rally more fury than a smallish property tax.<br />Alas, the sneakiness of the PAYE-deducted taxes and VAT has the upper hand. Our govt just abolished IHT from '14, lowered wealth taxes slightly and the standard rate of income tax with 1 percent. Good measures in themselves, and you'd expect them to follow suit with what every economic adviser from the OECD to the central bank head is saying to do something about property. Maybe something slightly non-radical like tapering off the universal interest deduction, or making the voluntary council property tax mandatory and equalise it. Ofcourse not. This was financed largely by an increase in (employee) NI. Overall yet another Homey victory. F... me.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.com