tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post8427686182143410391..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (217)Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-83046858556023590452012-05-27T19:07:09.690+01:002012-05-27T19:07:09.690+01:00B, yes of course, we appear to have somebody on th...B, yes of course, we appear to have somebody on the inside at the OECD who keeps sneaking in comments like that.<br /><br />I wish the OECD would make it clear what they mean by "consumption taxes" though. If they mean duties on booze, petrol, fags, gambling, then fair enough. But if they mean a blanket tax on gross income like VAT, then they've sort of defeated their own argument.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-23492535471471639362012-05-27T18:47:06.126+01:002012-05-27T18:47:06.126+01:00It´s strange considering that OECD writes:
"T...It´s strange considering that OECD writes:<br />"The analysis suggests a tax and economic growth ranking order according to which corporate taxes are the most harmful type of tax for economic growth, followed by personal income taxes and then consumption taxes, with <br /><br />recurrent taxes on immovable property being the least harmful tax.<br /><br />The explanation for these findings relates to the efficiency characteristics of the different taxes. Taxes that have a smaller negative impact on economic decisions of individuals and firms are less negative for economic growth. In general, income taxes have larger effects on firm and household decisions than (most) other taxes and therefore create larger welfare losses, ceteris paribus. A growth-oriented tax reform would therefore shift part of the tax burden from income to consumption and/or residential property."<br />http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/49/46617652.pdf<br /><br />OECD recommend Land value tax in (p. 12, 13 and 17) in their latest report.<br />http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/19/53/49826482.pdfBenjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09166780183467818355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-17071647604389850482012-05-26T12:06:27.109+01:002012-05-26T12:06:27.109+01:00B, yes, but in the UK, any tax that has anything t...B, yes, but in the UK, any tax that has anything to do with residential land is regarded as an abomination, including capital gains tax (which does not apply to your main home in the UK).Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-77205177337699632562012-05-26T10:50:06.759+01:002012-05-26T10:50:06.759+01:00"Forcing people out of their homes is ugly&qu..."Forcing people out of their homes is ugly"<br /><br />Forcing people to stay in their homes is worse... its to expensive to stay and to expensive to move. This is why our elderly is becoming very poor.<br /><br />I live in Sweden, we have the problem that noone can move from their home.<br />http://www.landvaluetax.org/frequently-asked-questions/why-are-we-against-capital-gains-tax.htmlBenjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09166780183467818355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-46372173693757378292012-05-23T21:31:53.550+01:002012-05-23T21:31:53.550+01:00RA, why on earth would you need to ask my permissi...RA, why on earth would you need to ask my permission? You ought to be asking the publishers of the Evening Standard :-)Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-46813730332609773172012-05-23T20:53:38.962+01:002012-05-23T20:53:38.962+01:00Mark, I leeched the Standard headline at the UK Li...Mark, I leeched the Standard headline at the UK Libertarian Forums. Actually now that I think about it I should have asked permish first or re-hosted it, I just got lazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-5326940856436025392012-05-23T20:46:33.014+01:002012-05-23T20:46:33.014+01:00D, cool, very modern, I've downloaded and will...D, cool, very modern, I've downloaded and will have a look.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-88154357432039778402012-05-23T20:09:13.616+01:002012-05-23T20:09:13.616+01:00Sure. Comments/changes welcome. Take a look on you...Sure. Comments/changes welcome. Take a look on your Google Drive/Documents. I've shared them with you.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06296053477905542366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-45756940921342817232012-05-23T19:38:05.819+01:002012-05-23T19:38:05.819+01:00D, sounds fun, email me the sheet please.
SB, tru...D, sounds fun, email me the sheet please.<br /><br />SB, true. But the Homey/FL view point is that something only counts as a tax if it goes to the government, they refuse to accept that taxes can be collected by nominally private individuals in any case where a state-protected monopoly is involved. <br /><br />RA, why would I make jokes about something like that? Ta for linking to the ES headline somewhere else on the web (wherever it was).Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-73349155857212443572012-05-23T18:23:24.223+01:002012-05-23T18:23:24.223+01:00Mark I thought you were joking about IanB calling ...Mark I thought you were joking about IanB calling you a paedophile but he just said the same thing at Tim Worstall's blog about a carbon tax.<br /><br />http://timworstall.com/2012/05/23/hang-the-fuckers/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-34620538178616850742012-05-23T17:42:49.752+01:002012-05-23T17:42:49.752+01:00MW It's a vitally important point that the TPA...MW It's a vitally important point that the TPA don't understand is that the State NOT taxing land does not reduce the tax, it just redicrects it to Landowners. Thus it has a negative effect on the country.Sarton Banderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04844470766043319292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-45157096904574711512012-05-23T16:51:01.616+01:002012-05-23T16:51:01.616+01:00Bayard raises a good point there. Why would you wa...Bayard raises a good point there. Why would you want to put a lazy person in a job when a hard-worker would do it better.It reminds me of something similar which would affect everyone, employed or unemployed after an LVT/CI system is put in place. <br /><br />I've been doing a little spreadsheet work recently looking at what happens when you mix people of varying ability with plots of land of different productivity. And it seems to show that just as a high-percentage LVT encourages a plot of land to be put to better use, a high percentage of that LVT returned as CI encourages people with low ability and high-value land to swap their land with those with higher ability owning low-value land because after the swap both people are better off. Of course Mark has been saying that this sort of trade up/trade down would happen for some time but it's nice to see the figures backing him up.<br /><br />So getting back to Bayard's point, it would actually better for all of us if the lazy and feckless who are employed and "working" were put on the dole and replaced by those hard-workers who are currently unemployed since the monetary cost would be the same but the amount of "stuff" produced would be greater.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06296053477905542366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-56247858672622206182012-05-23T11:43:56.722+01:002012-05-23T11:43:56.722+01:00B, you've made that argument before and I have...B, you've made that argument before and I have used it myself to devastating effect :-)<br /><br />M, yes, there are inherent dead weight costs associated with taxing incomes, but let's say we did just have a flat rate of 30%, no VAT, no NIC etc, the deadweight costs of that would be quite small, maybe 5% of GDP, scarcely worth worrying about... <br /><br />... but a lot of this unemployment and misery is caused by recessions, and recessions are caused by financial crises and land speculation - even in the 19th century, when governments only collected 10% of GDP in tax (the deadweight costs of which must have been about 0.1% of GDP), we still had recessions and unemployment and grinding poverty etc.<br /><br />So ultimately the simple fact of NOT having LVT has huge dead weight costs; which is an unknown figure on top of the guess-able figure of the dead weight costs of income tax, VAT and so on.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-74770328360184769282012-05-23T11:26:57.939+01:002012-05-23T11:26:57.939+01:00@Bayard, agreed, a lot of the unemployed are only ...@Bayard, agreed, a lot of the unemployed are only in such a state because the government has destroyed their jobs with VAT, NI, income tax, etc. It's only fair that they get some compensation if they suffer unemployment at the hands of a third party. A huge waste of time and human capital, but it's the choice we've made.mombershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650866436764567516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-44365002454455393012012-05-23T09:26:59.646+01:002012-05-23T09:26:59.646+01:00" I refer only to the % who constantly take t..." I refer only to the % who constantly take the piss. If you think that there are none then you really should get out more often."<br /><br />No, I don't think there are none, but if the ones that "take the piss" are only a %age and the remainder can't find a job either, what hope is there for the lazy ones? Even if the lazy bastards did get a job, they would only be depriving some hard-working job-seeker of it, so society is better off with them doing nothing.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-86519490425648528312012-05-22T19:24:48.289+01:002012-05-22T19:24:48.289+01:00Mav, feel free to rile away, I've had worse.Mav, feel free to rile away, I've had worse.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-2172099313689441782012-05-22T17:43:35.938+01:002012-05-22T17:43:35.938+01:00I actually promote UKIP as much as I can Mark ... ...I actually promote UKIP as much as I can Mark ... so sorry for riling you. :)<br /><br />I don't understand why UKIP didn't win any seats or why the public continue to vote for the big three (I was a Tory voter; but Cameron is a complete weasel and I no longer trust the integrity of that party) <br /><br />For me .. UKIP is the only way forward for the UK and I pray that you get in sooner rather than later.<br /><br />But you will have a hell of a mess on your hands ....Maverickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14033959207017710565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-46374396019122306062012-05-22T17:03:54.044+01:002012-05-22T17:03:54.044+01:00Mav, who exactly counts as non-resident or non-dom...Mav, who exactly counts as non-resident or non-domiciled is so heinously complicated that you might as well just apply common sense/guesswork. With a grey area conveniently big enough to accommodate a lot of Russian and Arab oligarchs. And UK source income is what you think it is - it's money earned from the UK (rent, interest, profits, wages).<br /><br /><i>"whether yours works or not relies solely on the integrity of those who implement it."</i><br /><br />Agreed. But that in turn depends on voters understanding what's going on and e.g. how much tax they actually pay - being presented with a single annual bill makes it about as clear as it can get.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-54998784986619107352012-05-22T16:58:49.420+01:002012-05-22T16:58:49.420+01:00I'd vote your manifesto Mark .. and I'd vo...I'd vote your manifesto Mark .. and I'd vote for any party serious about reforming the nation. <br /><br />But as with any model .. whether yours works or not relies solely on the integrity of those who implement it.<br /><br />A fair open and transparent system where corruption and dishonesty is severely punished is the only way. <br /><br />I wish you luck and hope you succeed ...Maverickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14033959207017710565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-66795856797390081162012-05-22T16:49:13.297+01:002012-05-22T16:49:13.297+01:00@MW, cue explanation for Mav of the UK tax system ...@MW, cue explanation for Mav of the UK tax system for UK sourced income paid to non residents<br /><br />Define exactly what constitutes non-resident income for a foreign investor .. <br /><br />dividends? expenses incurred (flights/hotels/dinners/entertainment) ?? <br /><br />Just curious<br /><br />ThanksMaverickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14033959207017710565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-65648898297963731482012-05-22T16:38:51.948+01:002012-05-22T16:38:51.948+01:00Mav, and I like your plan about cutting the size o...Mav, and I like your plan about cutting the size of the state, getting rid of quangos, getting out of the EU and so on, it's all in the manifesto.<br /><br />I trust you are aware that running the core functions of the state (law and order, defence, immigration, road repairs and refuse collection) is naff all? It's about five per cent of GDP. Any LVT in excess of that goes as Citizen's Income, the CI is just a balancing figure to keep money out of the hands of the politicians/bankers etc.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-53733729019724269412012-05-22T16:35:44.170+01:002012-05-22T16:35:44.170+01:00Actually I like the plan Mark ... I must confess. ...Actually I like the plan Mark ... I must confess. <br /><br />However the main hurdle is still 'politicians' ,the system and the amount of revenue required to be generated. <br /><br />Bankers and politicians are unlikely to relinquish the reins so easily ....<br /><br />But you can dream ....Maverickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14033959207017710565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-85202944859174136532012-05-22T16:34:22.760+01:002012-05-22T16:34:22.760+01:00Mom, why? Surely he knows all this, being the self...Mom, why? Surely he knows all this, being the self-declared expert on everything? What are my years of experience compared to his incredible insights.<br /><br />PS, it's at least 20% on rental income, 0% on interest income, normal VAT, income tax rates on trading income, SDLT and IHT as normal on everything, the only break worth mentioning is a narrow CGT exemption for 'investment properties'. But of course Mav knows all this stuff.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-78692639429902462822012-05-22T16:31:18.078+01:002012-05-22T16:31:18.078+01:00@MW, cue explanation for Mav of the UK tax system ...@MW, cue explanation for Mav of the UK tax system for UK sourced income paid to non residentsmombershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650866436764567516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-50589096211350694222012-05-22T16:30:01.678+01:002012-05-22T16:30:01.678+01:00Mav, yes, fair assumption (except for a couple of ...Mav, yes, fair assumption (except for a couple of very small tax havens). So [the people you don't like] have a choice: invest in UK income tax free or invest elsewhere and pay tax. What do you think they will choose? Where do you think the new investment will go?<br /><br />And if [the people you don't like] buy themselves a small flat here and live mainly abroad, they will pay oodles of income tax abroad (income tax is on a residence basis). Again, can you explain to me why they would do this? Why not stay resident here and invest or spend your money here and restrict themselves to the occasional holiday?Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.com