tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post7518406422861389533..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: The land use trade-off is not between urban and agricultural, it's between farms and forests.Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-39865472497151341872014-02-10T20:35:49.985+00:002014-02-10T20:35:49.985+00:00Kj, ta, yes, clearly it makes more sense to build ...Kj, ta, yes, clearly it makes more sense to build on shrubland or grassland than on arable.<br /><br />As you said above, towns tend to be in the middle of where the arable land is, which is a bit unfortunate. But it can't be impossible to organise this properly.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-48370970004396151962014-02-10T20:01:23.595+00:002014-02-10T20:01:23.595+00:00MW: thanks for the adjusted graph. Still not terri...MW: thanks for the adjusted graph. Still not terribly disconcerting, and if you peek back at the first chart, if we try to avoid cropland, still relatively abundant land to expand on. Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-12373718767800839682014-02-10T14:29:48.770+00:002014-02-10T14:29:48.770+00:00DBC, the first chart just shows the trade-off betw...DBC, the first chart just shows the trade-off between woodland and farmland. It's near the top because it has lots of woodland.<br /><br />In the second chart it's at the bottom because it has used a relatively large amount of its non-woodland for development.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-35351148300041013272014-02-10T14:23:50.242+00:002014-02-10T14:23:50.242+00:00@MW In the original chart Portugal appears up the...@MW In the original chart Portugal appears up the top: after your mathematical wizardry in the adjusted chart it appears at the bottom with all the artificial land basket cases, like us.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-88938242039336101632014-02-10T10:47:19.111+00:002014-02-10T10:47:19.111+00:00B, I'd assume so.
DBC, how do you mean "...B, I'd assume so.<br /><br />DBC, how do you mean "You somehow include Portugal"? That was on their spreadsheet so I included it in the chart.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-81667348415719132652014-02-10T10:42:20.654+00:002014-02-10T10:42:20.654+00:00If artificial land denotes built-up there is a tra...If artificial land denotes built-up there is a trade-off between urban and rural.You somehow include Portugal, which has an amazing amount of woodland, amongst the likes of UK and the Benelux countries.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-60529008465998332342014-02-10T10:03:07.379+00:002014-02-10T10:03:07.379+00:00"'bare land' (whatever that is)"..."'bare land' (whatever that is)"<br /><br />I expect it means desert, moorland, mountain tops etc, going by the fact that Spain has the most of it.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-3486846833261722992014-02-10T07:26:27.630+00:002014-02-10T07:26:27.630+00:00JH, I'm not drawing conclusions, I'm just ...JH, I'm not drawing conclusions, I'm just stating the fact:<br /><br />1. By and large. most European countries are covered in forests and farms, in some countries it's more of the former and in others more of the latter.<br /><br />2. The amount of developed land is surprisingly low in most countries, including the UK.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-461112540880680242014-02-10T07:14:58.103+00:002014-02-10T07:14:58.103+00:00Yes but what are the conclusions from that, Mark? ...Yes but what are the conclusions from that, Mark? It indicates what?James Highamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525082702330365464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-49856977992213688172014-02-09T20:22:09.273+00:002014-02-09T20:22:09.273+00:00DBC, I have no idea why they use the expression &#...DBC, I have no idea why they use the expression 'artificial'. <br /><br />They actually mean 'developed' i.e. it's got buildings or roads on it, or presumably homes and gardens.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-51260120697699415712014-02-09T19:58:48.434+00:002014-02-09T19:58:48.434+00:00DBC: that'd be the same as built on/paved over...DBC: that'd be the same as built on/paved over, not reclaimed.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-63652285827953128612014-02-09T19:46:20.632+00:002014-02-09T19:46:20.632+00:00Whys is there so much"artificial" land i...Whys is there so much"artificial" land in UK? Where is it, do you think? Netherlands having so much may be a clue.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-18205490311973911722014-02-09T19:06:24.899+00:002014-02-09T19:06:24.899+00:00Kj, I think I see what you mean.
We could:
1. co...Kj, I think I see what you mean.<br /><br />We could:<br /><br />1. completely ignore water, wetland, forest, scrubland and 'bare land' (whatever that is) as being nice to look at but irrelevant in economic terms.<br /><br />2. Reduce grassland by two-thirds to show its equivalent value in arable land.<br /><br />3. Finally, look at developed/artificial land as a % of what's left. That might be a more constant proportion, I don't know.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-16078308593293315002014-02-09T18:24:37.110+00:002014-02-09T18:24:37.110+00:00MW: the ratio between arable(cropland) and urban i...MW: the ratio between arable(cropland) and urban isn't that large. And prime arable tends to be the first choice for expansion of urban land. And a piece of arable land is worth much more than grassland as productive land, so I'd say there is a bigger tradeoff than the chart shows if you look at it from a productive capacity of farmland perspective.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-4916184620803592962014-02-09T18:13:50.104+00:002014-02-09T18:13:50.104+00:00Kj, I see no trade off whatsoever between arable a...Kj, I see no trade off whatsoever between arable and urban. <br /><br />You can download the spread sheet at the bottom of the link and see for yourself.<br /><br />Or do you mean that the amount which can be urbanised depends on the amount of arable land? Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-29239514759959144352014-02-09T18:04:42.184+00:002014-02-09T18:04:42.184+00:00Arable being a multiple of grassland in terms of p...Arable being a multiple of grassland in terms of productivity, both calories and value.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-57039920829639390552014-02-09T18:02:11.818+00:002014-02-09T18:02:11.818+00:00Very illustrative that chart. But you can also see...Very illustrative that chart. But you can also see that there is a relative tradeoff between *arable* and urban land.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.com