tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post3182008075368531464..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: "Riot police braced for outbreak of lawful killings despite aunt’s call for calm"Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-58190957765412805932014-01-11T22:45:36.457+00:002014-01-11T22:45:36.457+00:00Bayard, I strongly doubt the first thing on their ...Bayard, I strongly doubt the first thing on their minds is saving the taxpayer some money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-13365390262326375942014-01-11T18:53:46.522+00:002014-01-11T18:53:46.522+00:00UKL, one of the problems as I see it is that as so...UKL, one of the problems as I see it is that as soon as any public body admits it has made a mistake, people pile in with huge compensation claims, egged on by ambulance-chasing lawyers. So the temptation is always to admit nothing, even if this is a lie.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-44562217758147771132014-01-11T17:03:17.469+00:002014-01-11T17:03:17.469+00:00There's rather more to this than "inverte...There's rather more to this than "inverted racism".<br /><br />The police and IPCC, as per usual, handled this very poorly. Telling the media that Duggan fired his gun was a huge mistake - foundation of distrust right there. The inquest's independent witnesses don't corroborate the Met's version of events. No-one but the shooter saw the gun in Duggan's hand. No-one saw it fly through the air from the taxi to where it was found. And so on.<br /><br />Met firearms officers are not trigger-happy - the stats do not bear this out. But when something goes wrong - an innocent being killed, or an unarmed criminal being killed - boy does it go wrong. False narratives, anonymous smears, inquiries and inquests that take an extraordinary period of time to be completed... people should not be surprised there is distrust and anger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-25283919810349021212014-01-11T09:26:12.518+00:002014-01-11T09:26:12.518+00:00DBC Reed,
Contrary to your suggestion, there is n...DBC Reed,<br /><br />Contrary to your suggestion, there is no contradiction. That is, the fact that Duggan was no holding a gun does not prove the relevant policeman was not justified in shooting him. The CRUCIAL question is whether the policeman had reasonable grounds for thinking Duggan was still holding a weapon.<br /><br />Moreover, if a policeman had inadvertently killed a member of the great train robber gang (who were all white) that wouldn’t have been right, but half the country (me included) would have opened a bottle of champagne. Plus there certainly wouldn’t have been any riots. But as soon as the police kill a coloured gangster, everyone is up in arms. A bit of inverted racism there, I think.<br /><br />Ralph Musgravehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09443857766263185665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-64697983319384535422014-01-10T12:50:37.692+00:002014-01-10T12:50:37.692+00:00"It is flat out contradictory to give a verdi..."It is flat out contradictory to give a verdict:1)that Duggan was unarmed 2)it was nevertheless lawful to kill him."<br /><br />No it isn't contradictory. You have conflated two questions of fact: what the person believed to be the circumstances and what the circumstances were.<br /><br />Read the jury determination and conclusion pdf available online, including:<br /><br />"Did V53 honestly believe or may he honestly have believed, even if that belief is mistaken, that at the time he fired the fatal shot, that he needed to use force to defend himself or another;"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-25595546097550056262014-01-10T09:00:57.780+00:002014-01-10T09:00:57.780+00:00Whether you give the police the benefit of the dou...Whether you give the police the benefit of the doubt is neither here nor there.It is flat out contradictory to give a verdict:1)that Duggan was unarmed 2)it was nevertheless lawful to kill him.This verdict should be reviewed: why was n't the jury instructed that such a self negating verdict was unsound?DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-48504301450427304432014-01-09T20:47:44.800+00:002014-01-09T20:47:44.800+00:00DBC, one officer out of thousands made a stupid mi...DBC, one officer out of thousands made a stupid mistake, is all. Sometimes the police are too soft and get slagged off (or killed), sometimes they are too bullish. <br /><br />In the case of Jean Charles de Menezez, what they did was unforgiveably, totally wrong and they lied about it afterwards, ditto Harry Stanley. In Duggan's case, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.<br /><br />By and large, they get it about right. <br /><br />L, but did she then move her car, or did she take down your particulars? <br /><br />JD, I'm no expert in these matters, perhaps you can elaborate?Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-6060705235126822522014-01-09T19:52:37.418+00:002014-01-09T19:52:37.418+00:00Perhaps in order to calm everything down, the Comm...Perhaps in order to calm everything down, the Commissioner should issue orders that Stop and Search was to be ended.Our culturally diverse neighbours can then live with the consequences.johnd2008https://www.blogger.com/profile/04169397760493671323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-57224240430132091592014-01-09T17:44:04.435+00:002014-01-09T17:44:04.435+00:00Plod is as out of control as the rest of the quang...Plod is as out of control as the rest of the quango state. <br /><br />I caught one parking in our clearly market private car park without permission the other day. When I politely challenged her (not at that time knowing she was a police person) she flat out lied that 'it was all right for her to park [her private car] there as she was a police officer and she had permission from the permit holder'. As the PH is me and I hadn't given her any such permission I disabused her of that in pretty short order. But, fundamentally she was lying. How many of the rest of them are like that?Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-88535993161076290702014-01-09T16:53:09.468+00:002014-01-09T16:53:09.468+00:00Quite.This must be the most self contradictory ver...Quite.This must be the most self contradictory verdict of all time.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.com