tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post3094096415761791352..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: Acceleration ≈ gravityMark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-32856647214166507002021-05-01T12:45:43.625+01:002021-05-01T12:45:43.625+01:00Din: "The temperature is constant"
Clas...Din: <i>"The temperature is constant"</i><br /><br />Classic Physics Denier stuff!<br /><br />It is true that density changes in a geometrically with altitude and not linearly, but that does not change the principle one iota. Pressure must change by more than density for any change in altitude, that is basic addition.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-27907582064156623122021-05-01T09:16:01.080+01:002021-05-01T09:16:01.080+01:00The density and pressure both increase exponential...The density and pressure both increase exponentially as the density of the gas at the lower levels is caused by the pressure. ie D is proportional to P. The temperature is constant. Atmospheric density and pressure vs altitude are both curves.<br /><br />Do a google image search for air density and pressure for altitude. They are all curves for both.<br /><br />https://scied.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/images/long-content-page/density.gif<br /><br />also see here https://tinyurl.com/4v6hzm2r<br /><br />Increasing the pressure of a gas by reducing the volume it occupies does not cause it to be hotter because V has reduced. T=PV/nR. I do however concur that kinetic deceleration of air molecules by gravity has something to do with the Lapse rate.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-65081826829430333442021-04-30T15:44:45.065+01:002021-04-30T15:44:45.065+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-17636458585001533292021-04-30T15:43:56.058+01:002021-04-30T15:43:56.058+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-15562701197302261702021-04-30T14:13:11.094+01:002021-04-30T14:13:11.094+01:00KTC, if you cool air, it becomes denser, which is ...KTC, if you cool air, it becomes denser, which is why hot air rises and cool air falls. If you have a column of air in a mine shaft, the pressure at the bottom is the pressure at the surface, plus the weight of all that air between the bottom and the surface. If you make the air weigh more by cooling it, then the pressure at the bottom of the mine shaft will increase. Increasing the pressure of a gas will cause it to become hotter, as energy is being added to it. However, in this case energy is being extracted from the system and no work is being done to gas, so the temperature decreases.<br />Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-15255219063935689882021-04-30T13:40:41.750+01:002021-04-30T13:40:41.750+01:00KTC, that does seem a bit mysterious.KTC, that does seem a bit mysterious.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-52325457273001975832021-04-30T11:57:08.056+01:002021-04-30T11:57:08.056+01:00The most interesting part to me was when that when...The most interesting part to me was when that when they cooled the 'Western Deep' air to 28°C, the air pressure went up to twice that at the surface - seems counter intuitive that increasing pressure would decrease temperatureKevin the Chimphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16432727823332219893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-24812488186493963592021-04-30T11:14:45.975+01:002021-04-30T11:14:45.975+01:00Din, are you actually trolling me? You just used t...Din, are you actually trolling me? You just used the more scientific expression for T ∝ P/D, expressed as P ∝ D x T, which is the formula I used in step 3.<br /><br />KTC, thanks, clearly, exactly the rules apply to deep holes (but there's extra temperature from the rocks deep down).Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-72477025421955823142021-04-30T10:52:40.102+01:002021-04-30T10:52:40.102+01:00Why stop at the surface?
Check out this paper on ...Why stop at the surface? <br />Check out this paper on air pressure in mines:<br />http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/2506/1/IJRSP%2037%281%29%2064-67.pdf<br />Kevin the Chimphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16432727823332219893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-8323525985423615692021-04-29T18:52:30.253+01:002021-04-29T18:52:30.253+01:00(n/V) = P/TR
or
P = (n/V)TR
They are directly...(n/V) = P/TR<br /><br />or <br /><br /> P = (n/V)TR<br /><br />They are directly proportional relationships and so the curves would match if they were drawn correctly.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-86092388973261987552021-04-29T18:18:53.603+01:002021-04-29T18:18:53.603+01:00Din, nope.
"density is a function of pressur...Din, nope.<br /><br /><i>"density is a function of pressure"</i> Nope. <br /><br />You are making the Physics Denier mistake of assuming constant temperature. Why assume something for which there is no real life back up and which clashes with all logic?<br /><br />If in doubt, understand basic maths and look up the density, pressure and temperature gradients in our atmosphere. They match my diagrams.<br /><br />Density is a function of gravity<br />Pressure is proportional to change in density to the power of two<br />Temperature is P/D.<br /><br />Funny how basic maths and real life agree so nicely. Greater minds that our came up with the Gas Laws and clever weather people took all the readings. Clever scientists worked out specific heat capacity and measured the force of gravity.<br /><br />And they all tie in very nicely.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-3011177711369099262021-04-29T17:19:18.911+01:002021-04-29T17:19:18.911+01:00The density graph is drawn incorrectly. As density...The density graph is drawn incorrectly. As density is a function of pressure, it would follow the curve of pressure if it was drawn correctly.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-64989420586931112202021-04-29T17:02:45.284+01:002021-04-29T17:02:45.284+01:00Din, nope.
You can see that the top bit of the &q...Din, nope.<br /><br />You can see that the top bit of the "density" graph is a triangle.<br /><br />Density = height at any point.<br />Pressure = area to the left of any vertical line drawn from that point.<br /><br />Draw a triangle.<br />Choose a point from left to right.<br />Measure the height at that point = density.<br />Calculate area to the left = height x base x 0.5 = pressure<br /><br />Now choose a point further right.<br />Repeat the calculations.<br /><br />You will see that area increases by 'increase in density to the power of two'.<br /><br />Try to understand 'basic maths' before you dip your toe in the 'gas laws' paddling pool.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-33437916581004022252021-04-29T15:07:31.547+01:002021-04-29T15:07:31.547+01:00As P increases as a square of a step to the right ...As P increases as a square of a step to the right the density will also increase by a square of a step to the right.<br /> <br /><br />because (n/V) = P/TR<br /><br /><br /><br />and so the temperature is constant as pressure increases and density increases.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-21882602227947590212021-04-29T14:47:03.982+01:002021-04-29T14:47:03.982+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-50398031454258105072021-04-29T12:44:44.723+01:002021-04-29T12:44:44.723+01:00Din, this is basic maths.
For a small step to the...Din, this is basic maths.<br /><br />For a small step to the right, D increases from (say) 100 to 110, by a factor of 1.1<br /><br />For the same small step, P increases by a factor of 1.1^2 = 1.21. So it increases from (say) 100 to 121.<br /><br />121/110 is clearly greater than 100/100.<br /><br />Density goes up A BIT and pressure goes up A LOT from left to right.<br />So P/D goes up from left to right.<br /><br />Understand basic maths first, then I will explain the gas law stuff.<br /><br />But your takeaway for now is this:<br />Pressure is NOT the same as density. <br />Units of pressure are N/m2 or lbs/sq foot. It is a FORCE.<br />Density is simply "how much MASS is there in a certain volume?" so the units are kg per cubic metre.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-86532643537458674972021-04-29T10:43:38.260+01:002021-04-29T10:43:38.260+01:00now point 4 is edited. " The ratio of P/D in...now point 4 is edited. " The ratio of P/D increases from left to right. "<br /><br />That is not correct. Pressure goes up and Density goes up left to right. <br /><br />now the gas equation T=PV/nR .<br /><br />V/n is the reciprocal of Density . <br />And so as n/V goes up V/n goes down.<br />And so P *(n/V) is constant and so T is constant.<br /><br />The temperature profile cannot be arrived at by the ideal gas law alone.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-51300237987977353342021-04-27T11:37:27.388+01:002021-04-27T11:37:27.388+01:00D, I prefer 355/113.D, I prefer 355/113.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-41145475025963525732021-04-27T11:20:12.658+01:002021-04-27T11:20:12.658+01:00I remember 22/7, or 22 divided by 7. Easy when usi...I remember 22/7, or 22 divided by 7. Easy when using a primitive calculator.Doonhamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07046353503910797372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-66229296742536417942021-04-27T09:32:20.101+01:002021-04-27T09:32:20.101+01:00MC, they should have changed it to 3, that's e...MC, they should have changed it to 3, that's even easier than 3.2Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-47995311564685881922021-04-27T08:57:33.271+01:002021-04-27T08:57:33.271+01:00Indiana Once Tried to Change Pi to 3.2
Any high s...Indiana Once Tried to Change Pi to 3.2<br /><br />Any high school geometry student worth his or her protractor knows that pi is an irrational number, but if you’ve got to approximate the famed ratio, 3.14 will work in a pinch. That wasn’t so much the case in late-19th-century Indiana, though. That’s when the state’s legislators tried to pass a bill that legally defined the value of pi as 3.2.<br /><br />The very notion of legislatively changing a mathematical constant sounds so crazy that it just has to be an urban legend, right? Nope. As unbelievable as it sounds, a bill that would have effectively redefined pi as 3.2 came up before the Indiana legislature in 1897. <br /><br /><br />https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30214/new-math-time-indiana-tried-change-pi-32MrMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10216542447786677322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-44330931674503921342021-04-27T07:19:20.708+01:002021-04-27T07:19:20.708+01:00Din, spoken like a true Physics Denier! "you ...Din, spoken like a true Physics Denier! <i>"you are wrong but I'm not going to point out what I think the explanation is"</i>Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-32014435248470570452021-04-26T21:07:27.015+01:002021-04-26T21:07:27.015+01:00The conclusion of Point 4 is wrong . As the the ra...The conclusion of Point 4 is wrong . As the the ratio is constant therefore the the temperature is actually constant.Dinerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14632385731642361211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-5865633740154841572021-04-26T11:47:31.835+01:002021-04-26T11:47:31.835+01:00I am a big fan of delamination I am sick of hearin...I am a big fan of delamination I am sick of hearing him bang on about racismMrMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10216542447786677322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-34806524363550244392021-04-26T11:32:32.278+01:002021-04-26T11:32:32.278+01:00Vortices are also critical to the science of my fo...Vortices are also critical to the science of my form of forward motion, also delamination and twist.James Highamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525082702330365464noreply@blogger.com