tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post8434521332198691104..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: When Oxfam talk more sense than the ASI and the IEA..Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-52081926826688762562018-01-24T10:06:22.356+00:002018-01-24T10:06:22.356+00:00BTW
In the course of checking out how energeticall...BTW<br />In the course of checking out how energetically the ASI had been promoting LVT I Googled Adam Smith Institute Land Value Tax and second up was a storming article from 2009 by someone called Mark Wadsworth. This contained the absolutely critical Wealth of Nations quote from Smith about how good governance puts up land values so a tax on land is the only legitimate impost. This quote has been copied into my notes word for word and I suspect that I copied it from MW's article because I had no idea about Smith in my early days (decades) of supporting LVT , thinking he was anti all tax as the ASI is careful to suggest in its sustained policy of "chasing with the fox and hunting with the hounds" ( an old expression which is defined as to "Try to remain on good terms with both sides in a conflict or dispute".)DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-11241950388985382502018-01-23T12:58:22.138+00:002018-01-23T12:58:22.138+00:00'We really have to drive a wedge between these...'We really have to drive a wedge between these two ways of getting rich and almost no-one works at that.'<br /><br />TS agree with your whole post. Quote above, that's the tricky political bit. But we are all tilting at it here. <br /><br />DBCR I think your original, 'The Real Adam Smith Institute' idea was a neat one.I guess you could call them at the moment, ASI Lite?<br /><br />But, as Lola says, was reading an article from ASI myself, supporting the Basic Citizens Income idea, in complete contrast to the Boles Tory bloke, we looked at the other week. ASI and the Tories have to at least debate these basic liberal ideas, and evidently do not read from the same page all the time. Of course, come an election, all disagreement is no doubt put on the back burner. Fair enough.MikeWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15455583313857077618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-77935336282247614082018-01-23T11:51:03.541+00:002018-01-23T11:51:03.541+00:00TS. "You think anyone would hire a twat like...TS. "<i>You think anyone would hire a twat like George Osborne to actually run anything?</i> Apart from that self-serving oligarch (sic) that owns the Evening Standard you mean?Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-34394692458270931382018-01-23T09:32:30.711+00:002018-01-23T09:32:30.711+00:00Are you sure that the ASI is in favour of status q...Are you sure that the ASI is in favour of status quo in Mexico?<br />Are they really in favour of monopolies?<br />(BTW Carlos Slim is covered in the fascinating book the failure of Nations).L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-91047823448136982112018-01-22T20:45:32.077+00:002018-01-22T20:45:32.077+00:00The only concern (based on a tweet by Oxfam about ...The only concern (based on a tweet by Oxfam about wanting more state control) is that they're cherry picking Carlos Slim and ignoring some billionaires who really did make it on a combination of skill, hard work, innovation and luck.<br /><br />We really have to drive a wedge between these two ways of getting rich and almost no-one works at that. I doubt Oxfam also call for anyone to be allowed to do conveyancing or represent someone in court, or teach a child in a school or the removal of a dozen other forms of cronyism that also raise costs or lower quality for consumers.<br /><br />And as I said: there aren't many real businessmen in the Conservative Party. You don't get mechanics or software developers or wine merchants. It's stuffed full of people supplying to the state (jumping through pointless hoops) and people in fields like financial services.<br /><br />When a Conservative MP has outside interests working for a management consultancy, they aren't really doing any work. They're just getting paid to further that organisation's agenda. Same as banking. You think anyone would hire a twat like George Osborne to actually run anything?Tim Almondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13369256383976094670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-57485007300244210332018-01-22T19:44:46.085+00:002018-01-22T19:44:46.085+00:00MW. The tweet quoted on Guido is not helpful then....MW. The tweet quoted on Guido is not helpful then.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-89650700518313658292018-01-22T18:27:33.506+00:002018-01-22T18:27:33.506+00:00BJ, Oxfam wouldn't ask me, and the Neo Libs wo...BJ, Oxfam wouldn't ask me, and the Neo Libs would trash it anyway without having read it.<br /><br />L, nope, it's co-ordinated and deliberate.<br /><br />DBC, agreed.<br /><br />L, Guido can piss off, he's just another one that justifies cronyism by pretending it's proper capitalism, without realising that the report is not anti-capitalist in the slightest. There is plenty of irrelevant stuff in the report which we could tear apart, I just liked that introduction/explanation that I quoted.<br /><br />BJ, we explain the same thing in different ways, you can justify LVT on many different levels. Land rents belong to everybody and nobody IMHO.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-26255343953361434982018-01-22T17:43:49.188+00:002018-01-22T17:43:49.188+00:00@DBC
For understandable reasons, Smith/classical ...@DBC<br /><br />For understandable reasons, Smith/classical economists and Georgists apply Socialist theory to land, but leave labour and capital out of it.<br /><br />Inconsistent and wrong. <br /><br />"good government increases land values and so the state has a legitimate right to tax land because it raised its value"<br /><br />This is wrong. The state, landowners or landusers may well do things that causes demand to be shifted for land (or some other good/service) but that doesn't confer a property right, thus the right to tax or pocket a rental income from it. <br /><br />If LVT were not considered as a "tax" owed to the state to pay for public services, this issue may have made better progress. IMHO.<br /><br />benjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11544297406005346095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-80949372606557789632018-01-22T17:38:41.359+00:002018-01-22T17:38:41.359+00:00DBCR. I do not agree. I have had some lively deb...DBCR. I do not agree. I have had some lively debate with the ASI. They generally support land taxes. Eventually Ben Southwood was getting message before he left for pastures new and Tim Worstall is definitely a supporter. They are fully aware that 'good' government is necessary for economic success. It's just that they (and I) know that 'good' government is not 'big' government. In fact just the opposite, BIG government being Very Bad indeed.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-18228521890765570072018-01-22T17:27:08.789+00:002018-01-22T17:27:08.789+00:00Erm...
https://order-order.com/2018/01/22/oxfam-g...Erm...<br /><br />https://order-order.com/2018/01/22/oxfam-go-full-corbynista/<br /><br />I have had no time to read the Oxfam report today, but if Guido is right then Oxfam are talking out of their arses. It is precisely failed (failing) government that has got us into this mess.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-48456544895503915342018-01-22T16:54:54.438+00:002018-01-22T16:54:54.438+00:00@L
There is a "summary" of Wealth of Nat...@L<br />There is a "summary" of Wealth of Nations on the Adam Smith Institute website and nowhere in it does it mention that good government increases land values and so the state has a legitimate right to tax land because it raised its value- which is what Smith actually says in the original.The ASI appears to be engaged in a deliberate policy of representing Smith's laissez faire as completely anti-tax, when the tax yield of LVT would be enormous- even by Socialist standards!The ASI's policy should therefore be called Smith Minus (the land tax [understood])or lazyfaire.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-40843766554498968152018-01-22T16:27:17.739+00:002018-01-22T16:27:17.739+00:00BJ. The daft thing is that Adam Smith was fro tax...BJ. The daft thing is that Adam Smith was fro taxes on rents. <br />I think that this more likely to have been utter laziness by Dumitriu than downright stupidity.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-21688233942282831482018-01-22T16:14:32.551+00:002018-01-22T16:14:32.551+00:00Shame Oxfam can't be arsed to get people like ...Shame Oxfam can't be arsed to get people like you to help write their reports, as people like Littlewood and Dumitriu would be forced to confront the very things they are paid to avoid.<br /><br />As it is, Oxfam make it too easy.benjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11544297406005346095noreply@blogger.com