tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post6170946057895739943..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: In defence of NIMBYsMark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-84477733408324597332013-06-14T07:17:53.996+01:002013-06-14T07:17:53.996+01:00B: "Isn't that the fate of all LVT suppor...B: <i>"Isn't that the fate of all LVT supporters?"</i><br /><br />Yes, of course it is. But that is also stating the bleedin' obvious :-)Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-19652321211754108352013-06-13T21:59:32.742+01:002013-06-13T21:59:32.742+01:00"B, I was waiting for you to say it :-)"..."B, I was waiting for you to say it :-)"<br /><br />I already have.<br /><br />"I can't spend my whole life stating the bleedin' obvious."<br /><br />Isn't that the fate of all LVT supporters?Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-64402771826469579312013-06-13T20:29:16.420+01:002013-06-13T20:29:16.420+01:00B, I was waiting for you to say it :-)
I can'...B, I was waiting for you to say it :-)<br /><br />I can't spend my whole life stating the bleedin' obvious.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-9008450652358767622013-06-13T20:19:13.859+01:002013-06-13T20:19:13.859+01:00Mark, you've missed your cue to say "this...Mark, you've missed your cue to say "this is another problem that LVT would sort out"Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-30488477694174467462013-06-13T12:58:25.573+01:002013-06-13T12:58:25.573+01:00Bayard,
If you form up to the vendor of the house...Bayard,<br /><br /><i>If you form up to the vendor of the house and say that you want to knock £20K off the asking price because he can't give a guarantee that the land in front of the house won't be built on, he'll just tell you to go away and sell the house to someone else.</i><br /><br />That's fine by me. If people take the faux bucolic rural idyll choice, that's up to them. They forsook the option of buying in a developed area at a lower price, or living in a genuine cheap rural area like South Wilts or Mid-Wales, despite it being obvious that they are paying a premium for a view that could be destroyed.<br /><br />If they're rich enough to buy in the country and can't estimate risk properly then they and their money were probably lucky to get together in the first place.Tim Almondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13369256383976094670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-28655386439679598682013-06-13T11:56:57.229+01:002013-06-13T11:56:57.229+01:00"So far you are not putting much of a defence..."So far you are not putting much of a defence of NIMBYs, more of an apology, this is more like a "plea in mitigation" by a lawyer who knows his client is guilty as hell."<br /><br />Actually I feel more like a lawyer defending a black man in the Deep South.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-12760415890429809922013-06-13T11:55:34.281+01:002013-06-13T11:55:34.281+01:00"Society doesn't need housing?"
Of ..."Society doesn't need housing?"<br /><br />Of course society needs housing, but you don't seriously believe that every housing development is dictated by need, do you? No, it's driven by demand, which is something completely different. <br /><br />"People cannot expect farm or fallow land near them not to be built on and it is absurd to think otherwise. "<br /><br />What you think makes absolutely no difference to the price you pay. If you form up to the vendor of the house and say that you want to knock £20K off the asking price because he can't give a guarantee that the land in front of the house won't be built on, he'll just tell you to go away and sell the house to someone else.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-34925082962974420582013-06-13T07:33:57.713+01:002013-06-13T07:33:57.713+01:00B: "Isn't [the absence of NIMBYism] more ...B: <i>"Isn't [the absence of NIMBYism] more likely to be due to differences in land tenure and planning, for instance in Germany "</i><br /><br />Crikey, they don't ALL rent, you know. Where I lived, more than half owned, but even the owners weren't NIMBYs. Seriously, they didn't even think about it or talk about it. <br /><br />And you can't explain absence of NIMBYism by "differences in planning", you explain the latter by the former.<br /><br />So far you are not putting much of a defence of NIMBYs, more of an apology, this is more like a "plea in mitigation" by a lawyer who knows his client is guilty as hell.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-55827244880753647422013-06-13T00:23:09.432+01:002013-06-13T00:23:09.432+01:00What it usually boils down to is that a group of p...<i>What it usually boils down to is that a group of people living in a specific area are being asked to suffer a financial loss, not to fulfil "the needs of society", but so that someone else can make a financial profit.</i><br /><br />Society doesn't need housing?<br /><br />People cannot expect farm or fallow land near them not to be built on and it is absurd to think otherwise. That's exactly how their house was built in the first place.<br /><br />The problem with the UK is that we have a bizarre, romantic attachment to villages. Except, they're not really villages any more. They're soulless dormitories full of middle-class people who like green space, which is why all the village pubs started closing decades ago.<br /><br />The French don't. The French still view living in towns and cities as the higher status living. The villages are where the peasants live.<br /><br />Personally, I blame our post-war construction efforts in cities. We took Le Corbusier's ideas far more seriously than the French, who mostly just built lots of white buildings that were like a modern twist on the early 20th century French buildings that people found attractive.Tim Almondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13369256383976094670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-56723813189282364682013-06-12T23:16:32.841+01:002013-06-12T23:16:32.841+01:00I'd vigorously object to anti-social housing e...I'd vigorously object to anti-social housing even though I rent, because I care about crime and don't like slum creation schemes.<br /> http://www.quarterly-review.org/?p=1768#.UbhL9jNpAdQ.facebook<br /><br /><br />OT though.<br /><br />http://sciencenordic.com/little-sustainable-growth-african-cities<br /><br />Oh dear me.Sarton Banderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04844470766043319292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-10857645046606025462013-06-12T23:08:09.509+01:002013-06-12T23:08:09.509+01:00" in Germany people just accept new construct..." in Germany people just accept new construction and the replacement of little old buildings with bigger new ones as a fact of life and the way things are."<br /><br />Isn't that more likely to be due to differences in land tenure and planning, for instance in Germany most people rent their homes and in France the commune system makes these sort of decisions much more local. Of course national characteristics play a part, the absurd British obsession with class you have highlighted above being a case in point.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-70494249715287737352013-06-12T22:49:23.198+01:002013-06-12T22:49:23.198+01:00"Nope - they object even more vehemently to s..."Nope - they object even more vehemently to social housing where nobody makes a windfall gain. And I know that even social tenants object to more social housing being built "<br /><br />The first is snobbery, but it's other people's snobbery that rubs off on you: your property is devalued, because other people don't like social tenants. The second is just bizarre, but perfectly understandable, given the warped nature of British society.<br /><br />"And even if they knew that the developer had to pay such a high amount under a s104 agreement that he made no windfall gain at all, they would object."<br /><br />Well of course, they are still losing out, that is the main objection. I am sure there are many cases where "owners of existing homes actually make a modest capital gain when new stuff is built round them", but, especially in the countryside, they can easily make a loss.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-74955634434933131642013-06-12T22:09:57.849+01:002013-06-12T22:09:57.849+01:00"not, as some have suggested, because it is i...<i>"not, as some have suggested, because it is in the British genome"</i><br /><br />Oh it is, it is a national illness (the Yanks and Aussies have it too) but in other countries (for example in Germany) people just accept new construction and the replacement of little old buildings with bigger new ones as a fact of life and the way things are.<br /><br />I'm sure there are plenty of other cultures where people are grown up enough to see construction as a natural, ongoing part of life, the same as any other kind of economic activity.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-11530072751061853382013-06-12T22:02:59.929+01:002013-06-12T22:02:59.929+01:00"What it usually boils down to is that a grou...<i>"What it usually boils down to is that a group of people living in a specific area are being asked to suffer a financial loss, not to fulfil "the needs of society", but so that someone else can make a financial profit."</i><br /><br />Nope - they object even more vehemently to social housing where nobody makes a windfall gain. And I know that even social tenants object to more social housing being built (or they certainly do round my way).<br /><br />And even if they knew that the developer had to pay such a high amount under a s104 agreement that he made no windfall gain at all, they would object.<br /><br />Further, in the absence of LVT, owners of existing homes actually make a modest capital gain when new stuff is built round them, I sussed this out years ago which is the second reason why I never objected to anything being built round my way- even when I owned a house and four flats there.<br /><br />The first reason was that I am not an unreasonable NIMBY shit, I am libertarian, of courseMark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.com