tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post3986262185772705964..comments2024-03-05T10:52:24.691+00:00Comments on Mark Wadsworth: I read it as far as far as the first glaring error and decided that he was a twat.Mark Wadsworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-74033320491042846802014-02-09T20:19:49.551+00:002014-02-09T20:19:49.551+00:00KJ
I am anxious to take offence at what you'v...KJ<br /> I am anxious to take offence at what you've said but I can't understand it, so can't get started.<br />Do I think it better that the landowners screwed over the workers more than the mill-owners? Yes because i) the landowners had to pay the poor rate on the Speenhamland system and millowners did n't ii)the millowners started by employing child labour to process plantation crops raised by slaves;iii)the UK lost its food security in downgrading agriculture and had to rely on imports so during World Wars we starved particularly in WW1;iv) we ended up in 1901 with 23% in rural areas-France had 59% rural in 1901,31% in 1982;it is difficult to maintain a large industrial population with world cheap labour competition;v) the distinction between industrial and agricultural rich bastards was blurred back then because a lot started out as slave dealers who then invested in both land and mills. DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-88536630055999397232014-02-08T12:23:11.977+00:002014-02-08T12:23:11.977+00:00DBC: as usual the personal characteristics is your...DBC: as usual the personal characteristics is your field of expertise. So you have a policy (corn laws), that benefits landowners and slightly disbenefits factory owners in the fight over who can screw the workers the most, do we cheer it? You tell me.Kjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530243002915410700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-65534863032931616512014-02-07T18:53:30.417+00:002014-02-07T18:53:30.417+00:00DBCR, isn't there a chapter in Tuchmann's ...DBCR, isn't there a chapter in Tuchmann's "March of Folly" called "Persuance of policy contrary to self-interest" or some such?Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-63633742209944781192014-02-07T17:58:56.519+00:002014-02-07T17:58:56.519+00:00Reading up on the Ely and Littleport riots in May ...Reading up on the Ely and Littleport riots in May 1816 ,it looks like the Speenhamland payments to the unemployed did not keep up with the rising price of bread post Napoleonic War.Presumably the Corn Laws kept the price of bread up: if the Speenhamland payments had been indexed , the rich farmers, whom the pissed-up rioters had taken to beating up on sight, would have paid more poor rates but got a lot back in milled corn sales.Their resistance to paying a fair whack must have made ordinary people anti-farmer and anti- Corn Law so willing to listen to the Manufacturing Interest's anti-Corn Law complaints which as Marx predicted led, on abolition, to industrial wage cuts and a decline in agricultural employment, then ,because we were reliant on importing food and exporting manufactures to pay for them we became locked into a Free Trade which was really death spiral Imperialism.Or some such. Very different from what we were taught.And are still being told.DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-42406464385568787902014-02-07T14:41:03.893+00:002014-02-07T14:41:03.893+00:00Absolutely. The big problem with Speenhamland was ...Absolutely. The big problem with Speenhamland was that it was below subsistence level. As a result it acted as a subsidy to employers but not much else. If it had just been large enough to survive on, it would have been an effective cure for poverty. In principle it was the right approach. Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06296053477905542366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-19034674403816631982014-02-07T09:53:25.216+00:002014-02-07T09:53:25.216+00:00DBC, the system might have been badly designed, bu...DBC, the system might have been badly designed, but the very basic general Georgist principle was sound.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-74111524535666364672014-02-07T09:43:52.611+00:002014-02-07T09:43:52.611+00:00Some people think that the Speenhamland system whi...Some people think that the Speenhamland system which made the big enclosing landlords pay for the now landless farm labourers had some elements of LVT about it. (Me mainly since you ask: there was a Net reference to the element of redistribution in Speenhamland which I cannot, now, find.But I may make a habit of defending Speenhamland as well as the Corn Laws to annoy KJ who gets very stern when you question the merits of the agricultural and industrial revolutions -if not personally insulting.) DBC Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891849727783879145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-90626071600971374542014-02-06T19:45:38.025+00:002014-02-06T19:45:38.025+00:00B, they are a bad thing, I've never said anyth...B, they are a bad thing, I've never said anything else, nobody who knows about this stuff has said anything else. But people who know about this stuff wouldn't overstate the amount paid out by 300%.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141932539860553199.post-25221132221422651502014-02-06T19:14:42.827+00:002014-02-06T19:14:42.827+00:00I think that Working Families Tax Credits and Chil...I think that Working Families Tax Credits and Child Tax credits are a bad thing, but I really don't need people like this agreeing with me.Bayardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15211150959757982948noreply@blogger.com